The Inside

[prydain]

Posting this here since it's more in the thriller/horror genre.

Did anyone else watch this?

I'm rewatching the episodes this week and I fall in love with it more and more, everytime I watch it. This is the best crime show EVER.

I used to think the main character was a bad actress but now I realize she's supposed to come across like that - not much of a person, just an empty shell.

I can't believe this show is gone but at the same time it's hard to believe it ever made it to the air.

Stupid Fox. :eviltongu

P.S. - I thought I had made a thread about this but when I did a search, nothing came up.

[Vilandra]

Never watched the show :(

[prydain]

Oh darn. But FOX only advertised it for three weeks before the premiere...did you even see ads for it?

[Vilandra]

Nope. I didn't realize it had even aired lol

[goldenboy]

I saw three eps, I think. I wasn't crazy for Rachel Nichols, but I get the point of her performance. Tim Minear is good. I wonder how many eps were actually produced...had some clever, twisting plots...

[goldenboy]

Huh. This sounds like an interesting plan:

The show was the brainchild of Tim Minear, of Angel and Firefly fame. While FOX had already developed an earlier version of the show (a distaff 21 Jump Street imitator), Minear re-tooled it, with Nichols as the only holdover. Just seven episodes into its 13-episode first season, FOX cancelled The Inside, making it the third series (along with Firefly and Wonderfalls) of Minear's to be aborted by the network. Minear plans on releasing all 13 episodes of the original run, plus the Jump Street pilot, plus another pilot which was shot without Minear's supervision and was panned by FOX execs, on a DVD in 2006. Talk has emerged that the DVD would also include Inside co-creator Howard Gordon's short-lived 1999 series Strange World to make a 26-episode set, but no plans have been confirmed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inside

I don't know why they made this a summer premiere...and then FOX had another detective, serial killer show on last fall, just a couple months later. What the hell?

[N4H]

I am with Prydain, I was a gigantic fan. I taped what they offered on Fox, and belonged to the message board at TheInside.org (I think it was).

As usual with Tim Minear run shows, the first 3 only gets you started. You are not going to really get the show though, unless you watch what happens after that. It does not really begin until the Jane Espenson penned ep Everything Nice - the one about the little mean-girl. Curious thing; this one was supposed to be #2 in the episode order, but they changed it.

Personally I think changing the order was a mistake. It is a hard show for mainstream people to get into at its best. I got a friend addicted to it though, by starting them with Everything Nice then going on, and coming back to the first 3, after she had watched the latter episodes.

After Ep 4 they start to give you more about the supporting characters played by, Adam Baldwin (Angel, Firefly, The X Files), and Katie Finneran (Wonderfalls). They give you more on the internal chemistry of the group, and start to reveal more on Rebecca Lockes true character.

It turns out the answer is no, Rachel Nichols is not a bad actress. She is actually quite good. In the first 3 episodes the character she is playing is blocking the humanity of her character from the real world, and she has good reason to.

Another thing I thought was interesting about The Inside is it might have gone largely unnoticed by most people, but I think the producers of cop shows were watching. Ièm seeing stuff borrowed from The Inside popping up all over the place.

Oh and Bummer of bummers, what were supposed to be the best of the shows were never shown. David Fury (Buffy, Angel, Lost, 24) started working on the series after the last televised episode. Amber Benson (Tara from Buffy) was supposed to be in one of the better upcoming episodes.

The last episode was supposed to be the best of the series. It concerned an 800 pound cannibal who was eating annorexic woman. Damn I will never see it.

Supposedly the complete series is going to be televised in the UK soon.

[prydain]

Killer Instinct, which was on FOX, was practically a rip-off of The Inside, but less grim. It was decent enough though.

[goldenboy]

I am with Prydain, I was a gigantic fan. I taped what they offered on Fox, and belonged to the message board at TheInside.org (I think it was).

As usual with Tim Minear run shows, the first 3 only gets you started. You are not going to really get the show though, unless you watch what happens after that. It does not really begin until the Jane Espenson penned ep Everything Nice - the one about the little mean-girl. Curious thing; this one was supposed to be #2 in the episode order, but they changed it.

Personally I think changing the order was a mistake..

I did see the Espenson ep, yeah, that was great. Why is it so hard for Nets to show episodes in their intended order?!?! Is there actually some logistical problem there, in terms of scheduling, production? It seems to happen so often, and it always seems nonsensical. I know they shoot out of order, but if the eps are finished, in the can, just show them correctly! Sheesh! Idiots. Even if a clear arc isn't involved, characters, relationships are evolving with each ep...

I'm actually more interested in this now after finishing Wonderfalls. I hope they get it out on DVD soon....

[prydain]

I just watched "Everything Nice" - I missed it on FOX so this was the first time I saw it.

This is a FANTASTIC episode! But I can't believe the psycho girl wasn't stopped. Rebecca was awesome in the treehouse, though, when she threatened the little evil monstrosity.

This show is so addicting.

[Vilandra]

I'm increasingly remembering things about the show - I think that I thought the lead girl was a horrible actress, and this seemed sort of a rip off of Fearless, which never aired...

[prydain]

I've seen her in other things. She's actually a pretty good actress. It's just the main character isn't much of a person. I've read about Fearless but I don't think they're much alike. *shrug*

[Vilandra]

Just the feel was the same. The girl "prodigy" with the mysterious past that her colleagues don't know anything about. Etc

[N4H]

You see, that is another problem if you only get to see the first 3 eps.

It turns out that is not what actually happens. Rebeccas past is not really that mysterious. It turns out her case is well known. When her crew discovers Rebecca Locke is really Becky Locke, the kidnapped girl, it begins to create a whole new fascinating chemistry, between herself and the others, as they begin to understand her whole withdrawn nature, and reach out to her, each in their own character-driven way.

[prydain]

Yeah the episode "Lonliest Number" is really good with that...I love the ending. Very nice.

[Vilandra]

You see, that is another problem if you only get to see the first 3 eps.

It turns out that is not what actually happens. Rebeccas past is not really that mysterious. It turns out her case is well known. When her crew discovers Rebecca Locke is really Becky Locke, the kidnapped girl, it begins to create a whole new fascinating chemistry, between herself and the others, as they begin to understand her whole withdrawn nature, and reach out to her, each in their own character-driven way.
I meant like, how she came to be working with them etc. Not her personal past.

[prydain]

I just watched the eighth episode, "Aiden", which I think only aired in part of the country.

This was definitely the most disturbing episode. I felt sick the entire time I was watching it and the whole idea was very creepy. The dead baby...stuffing dolls and corpses in the women's uteruses (or uteri? lol)...ugh.

[goldenboy]

Eww. Wonder who wrote that ep? Can't recall which Buffy/Angel writers Tim Minear had recruited. Sounds pretty gross. That show Millenium had some pretty sick things like that too, as I recall.

[prydain]

Yeah, but I love Millennium too. :D

And not only was this episode sick, it's also very sad and depressing because the woman doing it is not really a bad person - she's just crazy.

And according to TV.com, the episode was written by Jane Espenson and some guy whose name sounds Arabian or something. Espenson wrote the fourth episode too, which was also disturbing (it involved a sociopathic little girl who was apparently born evil), but not quite as gross.

Good episode though, once you get over the sight of a baby doll being pulled out of a uterus. This show could give Se7en a run for its money.

[N4H]

I've never seen that ep. Do you have the DVD Prydain, or did you get Aidan...uhhh...elsewhere? Is the DVD out yet? Oh wait. Perhaps you're British. You could be watching the complete series, right?

Did Fury write any eps, or was he just signed on as some kind of associate producer? I know Angel writer Ben Edlund is supposed to have written the upcoming Amber Benson episode - The Perfect Couple.

Oh, and Prydain, have you seen the Amber Benson ep, or the finale? I'm most interested about those ones. Please post reviews if you have access to them.

[prydain]

No, I live in the States and got the episodes "elsewhere". :) Like I said, I think Aiden only aired in some parts of the country, and fortunately someone decided to share.

[goldenboy]

I already posted this on the Buffy Boards, but...Tim Minear was interviewed recently. He touches on The Inside and Wonderfalls a teeny bit. He talks about his career and his upcoming pilot, "Drive". It's a podcast, here:

http://instapundit.com/archives/cat_podcasts.php

[N4H]

Speaking of interviews and such. I always liked this one Tim did on The Inside about the time it was cancelled.

iF MAGAZINE: When THE INSIDE was pre-empted two weeks in a row, you were asked to take a second episode out of rotation, which one did you pick?

MINEAR: That decision was made for me when I got the standards notes on Episode 11 called “Perfect Couple,” which is the Amber Benson episode. The standards notes were so extreme, it would have pretty much butchered the episode, that I figured the best thing to do for that episode would be not to air it.

iF MAGAZINE: What was so extreme about that episode?

MINEAR: Not that much. The standards notes I get are so odd. In the “Aidan” episode, a fetus gets ripped out of the pregnant woman. They try to salvage the baby and find the doll. There was a shot where you could see a plastic foot sticking out of the stomach of the pregnant woman and I did not get a standards note on that. I went back and cut that out myself, because I found it offensive. But if someone is shot and is flailing around too much, that’s the kind of note I get. And “Point of Origin,” a guy sets himself on fire. It’s really nothing you’ve seen at the Universal stunt show. We did it on ANGEL and BUFFY all the time, but apparently, we can’t show that on TV. “He’s flailing around too much.” There is a whole flailing issue with standards and practices. But if you show a plastic foot sticking out of the ripped out abdomen of a formerly living woman, that’s okay. I opted not to do the notes on “Perfect Couple” so the episode would not be butchered.

iF MAGAZINE: It seems like you’re doing a 13-hour movie as opposed to a TV series, because they never seem to get beyond the initial order.

MINEAR: This is why it’s hard for me to be angry. I said this on my web site, if they want to keep giving me $40 and $50 million dollars to make 13-episode things, sure. I got to do a space western, I got to do a whimsical, fantastical romantic comedy and I got to do an abyss-staring noir. There ain’t nothing wrong with that. These things practically live now on DVD. I wish STRANGE WORLD was on DVD. We had a kick-ass ending for that, and we shot it and it has aired on Sci Fi.

iF MAGAZINE: Is THE INSIDE DVD scheduled to come out?

MINEAR: It’s not scheduled at this moment.

iF MAGAZINE: When it comes out, would you put all three pilots on it?

MINEAR: I would try to put all three pilots, I have scenes we’ve excised. I’ve saved up every scrap. As an avid DVD enthusiast it’s my pleasure. I really started doing it on ANGEL. If you look at ANGEL Season 3 DVD, all that stuff, all those extra scenes, Cordy’s TV show, the ballet scene from Josh’s episode, was all stuff I personally hoarded.

iF MAGAZINE: Do you keep up the BUFFY references throughout the rest of the season of THE INSIDE?

MINEAR: Half of those references weren’t meant to be references until people started pointing them out. “Oh, the blue glove,” “Oh, he said Serenity.” I’m sure there are a bunch in there that I didn’t even realize.

iF MAGAZINE: Has Fox tried to attach you to anything on their fall schedule?

MINEAR: I’m sure they would love to, but I don’t think they will. Dana Walden who is the president of the studio, has been incredibly supportive. I basically did this for her. She asked me to come in and do this dark, procedural thing. I didn’t at first, then I did, and I’m glad I did. She wants me to develop my own things.

iF MAGAZINE: Have you thought of directing a feature film at some point?

MINEAR: Sure? I’m not sure if it will be in the near future. I’m barely just coming off this thing. You learn something every time, but I do love TV and I like it because you get to tell things over a period of time. It’s a close-ended procedural, crimes are solved every week, but you can really see the thing was moving into arc-territory. And how can you not have arc-territory, when you have a character who is basically Elizabeth Smart. Those questions need to be resolved. What’s Web’s agenda? What’s going to happen with Paul and his family? What’s Mel’s secret? Did Danny kill somebody? You just want to know all these things and it would eventually become about that. It was really about that anyway. If you look at the episode “Everything Nice,” I have Rebecca tell you who the killer is in the first act and it’s all about building everything to one scene.

[prydain]

I've read that interview. Pretty interesting...

[N4H]

Have you checked out that podcast one from Goldenboy, Prydain? I've got a feeling you'll like it. It goes into a lot of the mechanics of a television series stuff you seem to be interested in.

[prydain]

I'm planning on doing it in a bit. How long is it?

[goldenboy]

Not really sure. 45 minutes maybe? They interview a sci-fi author first, then Tim. In the listener feedback section on that site, there were a couple of people really tearing into Joss and Tim about how supposedly lame, derivative their stuff is, blah blah blah. But they sounded slightly troll-like, as if they didn't even really know what they were talking about.

I thought it was a really insightful interview, in terms of Tim describing what it means to be a writer for television—how it's actually better in many ways than being a movie screenwriter.

[prydain]

Well Joss and Tim may be great writers and critically worshipped, but none of their shows have been mainstream successes. They never get over 5 million viewers for any of their shows, it seems. Which really sucks.

[goldenboy]

Well, yeah, that was part of the troll's point. They are limited-audience, "cult creatives". And they are derivative, in the sense that they work using genre conventions as a starting point. So, of course it's gonna feel derivative, to a casual viewer. That's the downside of "genre".

But, it's the way they twist and mutate genre ideas that's so fun! I mean, the Sopranos is derivative of the Godfather and Scorcese flicks. But, it's tweaked and updated—twisted in a postmod sort of way. But maybe there's less of a stigma attached to gangster flicks than sci-fi, fantasy.

I think Drive has a good chance to make it in the mainstream...

[prydain]

Yeah I really don't understand why the general population feels like fantasy in a movie is okay but it's not okay in a weekly series. But whatever.

This podcast is quite interesting...I think the interviewers are correct in saying Tim's shows are for the "weird and intellectual" people, lol. Because his shows certainly make you think. When I watch CSI (which is rare), when I watch it I'm done. Tim Minear's stuff sticks with me and I always think about what happened, character motivations, etc.

Drive does sound interesting.

[goldenboy]

Tim had mentioned his hope of putting THE INSIDE out in tandem with another short-lived Fox series, STRANGE WORLD (on which Tim had worked with INSIDE co-creator and 24 veteran Howard Gordon). Fox, evidently, said no.
This sucks. Is this a done deal?

Tim said “It’s not my job to bring the audience, it’s my job to keep the audience and build the audience.” I think we can safely say that the network didn’t bring the audience. In fact, the network quickly decided to pre-empt the show in favor of more reality programming (as an ironic aside, the aforementioned reality series, SO YOU THINK YOU CAN DANCE, was described by Fox programming folks as the cavalry coming to bolster THE INSIDE with a strong lead-in. Instead, the cavalry arrived and promptly trampled what it was meant to be saving). I think we all know the mantra by now—say it with me: “Fox…”

http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Television&action=page&obj_id=50954

[N4H]

That's a great article. Any true Minear fan should read the whole thing, and encourage others to do the same.

It's the best article I've ever seen for showing people how to "get Tim".

[goldenboy]

Yeah, I was almost thinkin you had written it N4H, lol.

[prydain]

Cool article, wish I hadn't read it though because now I really want to watch The Inside again.

I wonder why he didn't like "Old Wounds", that was one of my top favorites.

[prydain]

I. Just. Found. Last. Episodes!

Woot woot. I can't wait to watch 'em.

[N4H]

Keep in touch. Remember my request. A review on the Amber Benson ep, and the last one about the 800 pound cannibal who eats anorexic girls. :popcorn:

[prydain]

Oh but of course. :D

I'll probably post a review of every unaired episode, I'm really excited for em, lol.

[N4H]

I get it now. The complete 13 were shown in Britain on ITV.

I saw the last one. Without spoiling Prydain and Goldenboy before they get to it, I think I can say any conclusions concerning Rachel Nichols acting need to be put off until they see that episode.

The people who were making those assumptions about her being a bad actress were making them based on the first 3 eps. When you get into the series though, you realize it was a more a case of a decent actress playing a character who was a human shell. In the last episode you realize not only is she a decent talent, she can be pretty damn good. I think if that series had been allowed to continue she would have eventually been up for awards.

The characters have been fleshed out by that point, and the whole ensemble is pretty much exceptional I thought. They develop great chemistry by ep 13, and their characters are a lot of fun to spend time with.

In general on that episode I would use words like spooky, gruesome, clever, and fun.

[N4H]

If you don't happen to be lucky enough to be in the UK, and get IT4, where they're showing the complete 13 for a second time, or you don't want to do what it takes to see it over here, there's a 3rd alternative - not quite as good, but it's out there. You can download the transcripts.

http://www.timminear.net/archives/the_inside/000115.html

The guy who playe Holtz in Angel is in the second to last episode.

It's fun to play spot the Genre Actors with this one. The woman who played the Tyler's maid in Wonderfalls is in Everything nice. William Mapoher (Ethan) from Lost is the cannibal in the last episode. Then there's Amber Benson of Buffy, and a couple of the main actors. Katie Finneran from Wonderfalls, and Adam Baldwin - X Files, Angel, Firefly.

And the crew is like a who's who from the Whedonverse - David Fury, Jane Espenson, Ben Edlund, Tim Minear.

[prydain]

Yeah I've noticed the sort of interconnectedness...I guess they all like each other.

[prydain]

OK so even though I've had the remaining episodes for quite a while I just now watched episode 9...the Little Girl Lost one. Man, that was a head trip. So the girl was in Rebecca's head the whole time, eh? Interesting.

This was actually one of the mildest episodes as far as gore and how disturbing it was, etc. I really liked it though.

[N4H]

The guy who runs the blog for Tim Minear's upcoming series Drive collected the cream of the video from The Inside section on You Tube, and posted them here -

http://drive-tv.blogspot.com/

It just reminded me how amazing the series was, and got me in the mood to watch some old tapes. Can you believe Fox never thought enough of this gem to bring it out on DVD? That's one of the best arguements I heard for the moral imperative of file-sharing. The crime is depriving the audience of the art, not sharing it. It's no wonder Tim Minear himself has suggested people look for it as a torrent.