Army of Ghosts/Doomsday SPECULATION AND VERY POSSIBLE SPOILER

[Bored of the Dead]

D0 NOT READ ANY OF THIS IF YOU WANT ANY SORT OF SURPRISE FROM THE TWO EPISODES....
Note: These comments are speculation based around some widely known facts.



OK, well, i've been hearing rumblings that are getting my juices FLOWING.
First of all, we know that these two are Cybermen/Torchwood episodes.
Davies said recently that another 'old enemy' will make an appearance.......but catagorically stated that the Daleks were not in season 2.
I think he is lying on the second.
One reason the 'Old Enemy'
Another, TV Times advertises for next week 'Dalek vs Cybermen'(which is consistent with the Old Enemy returning as they are the cause of the rift) and three.....this PICTURE

Possible HUGE Spoiler (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/hingethunder/twoshot.jpg)

[N4H]

I think it's The Master in a Dalek suit ;)

Actually if it does turn out to be as you deduct though, that will be wild.

Did you catch the preview after last night's offering. That looks crazy. Can't miss that one. Please God don't let my computer blow up between now and the next two.

[Mr Pointy]

I'm more concerned that Tracy-Ann Obermann seems to have lost all her scary Eastenders hair :)

Seriously looking forward to this final two-parter when we get to find out Rose's fate...I hope it isn't "to die in battle"

[Bored of the Dead]

OK, well from the teaser and if i don't mention the other spoiler in this, its all speculation so I can talk sans black block.
OK, firstly, IF Rose is to die, and that is still an If, even though its been alluded to, I would prefer her to Die fighting as a Hero then any other way.
Having said that, I'd actually rather like her to stay alive and go back to her mother.
However, RTD has made it so impossible for the Character of Rose to leave the Doctor, its almost certain Death is the only out.
Next, we have the 'Army of Ghosts'. I took from the teaser that it was a fusing of 2 dimensions, this one and another, if that is the case, is the other the one we visited earlier this season AND if so, do we get one more appearance of Mickey?
If it IS a bleeding of Dimensions, then I actually hope that when the two are separated, Rose and Jackie are given the choice to stay in the other one with her father.
I know, tres corny but it would be a nice end for the characters.

OK....and as for your spoiler N4H, that was my thought too. If they have to down the road of using them, then why not have the big Cheese indeed.



EDIT: lso looking forward to Tracy Ann...she was top shelf as Chrissie so i've been looking forward to her all series.......and i liked her hair in the teaser, though i prefered her in Eastenders....THAT is one sexy lady!!!

Just incase you missed it or want a refresher

Trailer (http://youtube.com/watch?v=fc1jgYeQk4o&search=Army%20of%20Ghosts)


That line is horrid.

'This is the last story i'll ever tell'

[Mr Pointy]

I'd like to bring something else to the table for consideration (too many management courses and meetings!)...rumour has it that the Ghosts in the title may well be the Gelth from series one ep "The Unquiet Dead" after all, they are linked to the rift in space/time to be found in Cardiff, which is where Torchwood HQ is to be based in the upcoming new show.

[Angel's vision]

Mr P that could be one possibillity but i prefere the Daleks/Cybermen as the spoiler preview was indicating it anyway i saw someone die the way the Daleks would kill.As for Roses line "this is the last story i'll ever tell" cliche cheese! but it was good! lol

[Bored of the Dead]

Seriously, Angels Vision, there is a reason we are putting spoiler tags over certain words...its still only speculation BUT its based on a decent knowledge of events.

I'm still leaning/hoping that its a residual of the 'Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel' episodes that is causing two dimensions to bleed together, which would mean it possible for Mickey and Pete to come in. remember its generally considered br the Doctor that dimensional Travel is impossible, so IF this was to happen, then gauging Roses reluctance to leave her Dad at the end of AoS and the fact Jackie was transformed, PLUS Mickey staying, I'd bet money that if they can do it, they'd stay in the alternate Universe.....which personally i'd prefer as an end to her Character then to die.....I guess I just want a Happy Ending for a character that i've loved

[Angel's vision]

Seriously, Angels Vision, there is a reason we are putting spoiler tags over certain words...its still only speculation BUT its based on a decent knowledge of events.

I know that now :tongue2:,*runs far away*
ps, proving i can put blacked out quotes Rose either dies on season two cliffhanger or season three midway....
i heard conflicting stories is all.....

[Bored of the Dead]

WOW, England are out of the World cup, and wanna know something, I could not be happier!!

It has nothing to do with the football, its the fact that Army of Ghosts was soo FU*KING AWESOME.

Man that episode was just gripping. Best written episode has to go to 'Love & Monsters' BUT for pure suspense, action, edge of the seat 'i'm gonna poo myself' excellence this one was just.....awesome doesn't cover it.

Jackie was magnificent, Mickey, i'm so glad he is back, the Cybermen were great, Yvonne was simply hilarious(Its a shame she won't be in the Torchwood Series actually).....damn I'm not gonna say much cause, its still a spoiler for some.
Sufficed to say, i've been right on a couple of things.

I really do hope that my Rose ending comes to pass though.

When N4H posts that he has seen the episode, tahts when i'll begin with proper details:)

I've just taped it, gonna watch it again...bye:)

[Angel's vision]

So i was so happy to see the Daleks, what a releaf now we can see some proper bitch fighting..??? and Roses "dad" is back!

so i cannot wait till the next eppy bring it on!
and so what if england lost against portugal what was more exciting seeing your suspicions about yob Rooney and Beckham an d co loosing or seeing
Metal dustbins..????laughs evilly....

[N4H]

I tape ;) it Saturday night, then watch it in the morning.

[The Daemon Hunter]

Wow, that episode owned....

[Mr Pointy]

Daleks and Cybermen in the same episode for the first time ever...fanboy wet dream or what? I am so looking forward to next week's ep...

"Girl in the Fireplace" and "Love and Monsters" best written in this season so far ("School Reunion" close second) IMO...but - come on! Daleks and Cybermen in the same episode...

[N4H]

Joining the chorus of Wows...Wow!! Frantic, thrilling. An emotional shiver moment at the beginning, and a gleeful rubbing of the hands with a nervous, anticipatory chuckle moment at the end. So many wild, powerful concepts, and characters all all arriving at the same spot in the same moment of time. That doesn't always work. Must be hard to find the balance or something. They found it here though. Monstrous clever writing, good production values, great characters, thumping action music (I like thumping action music), emotional rushes, intellectual mind games to play with. What more could you ask for. My personal favourite episode so far. Why do I keep finding myself saying that this season. This is my third personal favourite so far.

I'm really warming to Jackie, so that must mean they're about to kill her off (should I say again?). I like the new badass Mickey. Is he companion material do you think, or is he up for the chopping block too?

Hey you know that clip of the British daytime soap? Was that that show Coronation Street we hear about over here sometimes?

[Bored of the Dead]

Bout Goddamn Time N4H!!!

Firstly, that was Eastenders.
Here is a note thats kind of fun. The woman playing Yvonne played Chrissie Watts, who killed Den Watts in the Queen Vic. Means nothing until you remember the name Peggy(the woman in the pub(remember her from all those Carry On films - Barbara Windsor)) gave to the 'Spirit' she wouldn't serve....gotta love an in joke within an in joke.

Now, i'm gonna go spoiler now with no tags cause, well not many others read this page that haven't seen it.

The End was magnificent. Kick-Ass Mickey about to blow away the Cybermen and its a gosh darned Dalek. There are two things i'm happy I was correct about..Daleks and Mickey.

This was a superb episode for Jackie. I loved her reaction to being taken in the Tardis and being 'kidnapped'.
I also loved her with the 'Doc' when he was playing her as Rose.
Maan, that was funny.
Next, i LOVED the Ghostbusters reference. Made me laugh so gosh darned hard(and i'm still singing the theme now;)
My thoughts on the Dalek/Cybermen thing were confirmed by the time we first saw the Cyberman. The Doc had already dismissed the Gelth, and due to the reveal of CM so early, it was kinda obvious....but i still loved it.

Mickey, when I saw him in the lab, i was on the edge of my seat. It was just the best reveal. N4H you are correct. Normally its a little hokey when so many characters are brought in during a single episode, feels forced, but here, there was a genuine flow.

I can't wait for next week.

I don't think that Mickey will be a companion, i'm still clinging to a Rose/Jackie/Pete/Mickey happy ending in the other dimension cause honestly, you kill Rose, you have to kill them all and to me thats just too high a body count for the Finale especially when i'm convinced that Yvonne(who i'd LOVE to be in Torchwood) is going to die.

[Mr Pointy]

If you watched Doctor Who Confidential on BBC3 after the ep you will have seen that Torchwood (the show) will be set in Cardiff...so presumably that will be a good Torchwood (especially as Jack is the lead), which means (I reckon) that bad Torchwood is going to get its Canary Wharf arse exterminated...I just hope that the Tylers and Mickey get to live extra-dimensionally happy-ever-after...

[N4H]

A few references I don't get.

First off, what is Canary Wharf? Why are all these significant looks exchanged when Jackie discovers that's where they are?

When Yvone explains to the Doctor about Torchwood, he asks "Do you have an Alonzo here?" Who's Alonzo?

The Doctor says something like "My people called it the void. The Eternal called it the howling." I can't remember; was the Eternal that thing in Satan Pit? If not what is the Eternal.

In an earlier ep the face of Bo promised to pop in later with some kind of final explanation. Will that refer to this series do you think, or a later, later date?

[Bored of the Dead]

First Off, Canary Wharf.

Its a large business area in the center of London.
I think, unless its gonna be proven wrong later, that the looks are simply about the fact this institute is bang in the middle of one of the busiest dicks in the world.

Alonzo was just a play on the 'Allon ze(my French is terrible so this is phonetic so it translates somewhat'. The Doctor wanted to me an Alonzo so he could say 'Alonzo, Allon Ze
If you remember, The Doctor didn't know what that was in 'Satans Pit', thats what frightened him.

I'm by no means a 'Whovian' in terms of some so this is just a guess, maybe the Eternal are another race of people, like Time Lords that haven't appeared on screen.
It wouldn't surprise me if this was actually a sly reference to a future episode 'Monster'....assuming they are bad, which i doubt.

The Face of Bo, he told the Doctor he would meet him one more time, and that it would be to reveal a secret before it died.
So on the strength of that, personally I doubt he will be part of this story, or infact any story for quite a while.

OK, again i've just watched the show(taped off TV) and make another point about Canary Wharf.
Yvonne implies that Canary Wharf is the cover for the Torchwood institute with the line
'Well that is the public name for it, but to those in the know, its Torchwood.'
As we know from Tooth and Claw, Torchwood has been around in some for for over a century, so during Canary Wharfs life time, Torchwood has taken on a key role there.

[Mr Pointy]

Another gratuitous Canary Wharf fact - when it was built, it was the tallest building in London, thus suggesting it was built deliberately by Torchwood to enclose the space-time rift which was 600ft in the air.

Russell T Davies has said that the Face of Boe will make its third appearance in the next series...I can't remember where I read that but it was either Dreamwatch, The Radio Times or the BBC Doctor Who site...or I possible saw it on Doctor Who Confidential (the BBC's companion, "making of" show)

I've not heard of the Eternal before but there are large gaps in my Who knowledge (mainly the Davison years :)) but I couldn't help but think of Neil Gaiman's Endless characters when I heard that bit...notice how I've worked in another Gaiman reference there? Read Sandman and give your brain a treat :)

[N4H]

On the Allonzo thing, I think I'm starting to get that. The first thing the Doctor ever said to Rose was "run". Didn't the Tom Baker Doctor Who used to say something all the time like "Quickly. Come with me"?

I think I get the Canary Wharf thing too. I'm thinking we're supposed to be impressed by the amount of cash Torchwood must have to do the things they do.

[Angel's vision]

I laughed at the ghostbuster reference too, and The appearence of the Dalek was just so funny i don't now why i just found it funny i guess it was because Mikey was expecting a Cyberman, perhaps and was shocked to see a Dalek instead?

[Black Eye Guy]

I have now totally caught up, and having watch the whole of this episode I have to say it was amazing! There was so much in it, Mickey, Torchwood, Cybermen, Daleks and it was so funny.

I'm really not sure about the ending, the way it is being set up it does look as if Rose is set to die, but that could just be to throw us off. But it also looks like it could be set up to be BotD's theory about them living in the parallel universe!

I am dieing to see it tomorrow!

[Bored of the Dead]

OH MY GOSH.....i have nothing to say cause of N4H(don't want to spoil the surprise - you had better 'tape' and watch fast there Mister).
The only thing i'm gonna say right now is this
Dr Who F*U*N*K YEAH!!!!!
I'd say another word but its an all age;)

[N4H]

Not to worry, BoTD, go ahead. I'll just avoid the thread until I see the program tomorrow morning. Crossing my fingers. Work comp... oops, I mean taping machine, work.

[Angel's vision]

Al your theory about Rose was correct! you deserve a hug! I loved it!,
the best quote: cyberman are good at one thing, being exterminated!
This is not war it is pest control! LMFAO!, oh i'd hoped Rose had a little timelord on the way but never mind my romantic dreams are on hold for now!
his goodbye was soo moving it was hard not to get teary eyed!
but Catherine Tate appearing at the very end brillaint!
did any one notice the badwolf connection..?

Is it me or have the Daleks got more gobby..?

[Bored of the Dead]

OK, well WOW.
First off....I WAS RIGHT>>>YAY(it had to happen sometime;) _
OK, well not completely right. Rose had no choice in it, but facts are facts, her, Mickey, Jackie and Pete(and Junior Tyler soon) living happily ever after in 'PeteWorld'. Whats more, Rose works at Torchwood....she could run the place!!!!

Anyway, that has got to be the greatest season ender to any programme ever, and yes i'm even including 'The Gift'. It was a 'Whovians' ultimate Wet Dream.
The Daleks and The Cybermen....wowowowow...i'm in love with Mickey - Its like Stephen Hawking and The Talking Clock having a conversation.
That was just an awesome fight. I still have the shakes....its repeated 3 times this week. I shall be watching.
I adored the fact that Yvonne was turned and thanks to her state of mind going in, managed to remain herself to the end...just in armour.
gahhh i've got so much to say but i can't think....

That ending was superb too. Rose and The Doctor, i swaer i was on the brink of tears, though i'm glad he didn't say 'I love you' not because i don't think he meant it, honestly, i think he does, but because i just don't think those words should ever leave the Docs mouth.

So, next we have 'The Runaway Bride' Christmas Spesh eh.
Catherine Tate, one of the funniest women in comedy at the moment....'am I bovver'd' is in it......thats just like....thats funking awesome.

I'll say more later:)

Al your theory about Rose was correct! you deserve a hug! I loved it!,
the best quote: cyberman are good at one thing, being exterminated!
This is not war it is pest control! LMFAO!, oh i'd hoped Rose had a little timelord on the way but never mind my romantic dreams are on hold for now!
his goodbye was soo moving it was hard not to get teary eyed!
but Catherine Tate appearing at the very end brillaint!
did any one notice the badwolf connection..?

Is it me or have the Daleks got more gobby..?

N4H has promised to saty out of here till he has seen it so no more need for spoilers.
Those lines were funny, but i 100% disagree with you wanting Rose to be carry the Docs child. I'm glad they didn't do that cause it wouldn't have felt right on ANY level.
And yes, the Bad Wolf Connection, being that they made it obvious i'm pretty sure we'll all get that one;)

I loved it when Rose told the Dalek that she had killed the Emperor, classic.

Russell T has totally put himself on par with the likes of Joss Whedon now. They truly can be said in the same breath.

[Angel's vision]

N4H has promised to saty out of here till he has seen it so no more need for spoilers.
Those lines were funny, but i 100% disagree with you wanting Rose to be carry the Docs child. I'm glad they didn't do that cause it wouldn't have felt right on ANY level.

yeah your right it's just i got caught up in the moment! the fact that DT is very goodlooking doesn't help if it was the other doc then i wouldn't of thought it at all.As for the spoilers well at first i wasn't sure so it was to be on the safe side. When i was typing my peace out i N4H hadn't posted the go ahead so i guess i was too slow lol! I'm gonna watch that moment again and again it was soo good, i loved that he came to say goodbye it made it less emotional if that is the right word.

[Bored of the Dead]

yeah your right it's just i got caught up in the moment! the fact that DT is very goodlooking doesn't help if it was the other doc then i wouldn't of thought it at all.As for the spoilers well at first i wasn't sure so it was to be on the safe side. When i was typing my peace out i N4H hadn't posted the go ahead so i guess i was too slow lol! I'm gonna watch that moment again and again it was soo good, i loved that he came to say goodbye it made it less emotional if that is the right word.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about Spoilers now though. We are so passed that. Gosh, i'm raedy to explode. I wish i had someone in real life i could talk to about this show....sadly, no one likes it around here, fools.

[Mr Pointy]

Oh Yea! TV event of the century so far. RTD is sooo good. It had everything - laughs, tears, action, drama, Cybermen, Daleks...dammit! what more can a child of the Blue Peter generation (we're far more polite than those baby-boomers and gen-xers ;)) want. Feckin' awesome! I will probably be up to slightly more coherent analysis and critique tomorrow after I've watched it again :) Plus, I'm so pleased Rose didn't die...it meant we got all those lovely, moving and tearful (including me) goodbye scenes. Doctor Who is the new Buffy ;)

[Black Eye Guy]

That was amazing!!!! I missed it yesterday cuz of a friends birthday, so I had to... err Tape it, so I watched it this morning and... wow!! Definitely one of the best season finales ever! I am so glad that Rose didn't die, but it was so good how they set it up so you could experience her almost death, I was so sure she was going to fall into the void, so I was thinking "She's dead!!!" and then on top of that we get that amazing goodbye scene!, that was really hart breaking, Billie Piper did an absolutely amazing job.

The battle between the Daleks and Cybermen was excellent, and yeah I think that bit where Rose tells the Dalek about destroying the emperor was brilliant. Seeing Mickey again was great as well, I love how his character has developed.

And the ending was just perfect, I wouldn't have changed a thing. I’m so glad Rose wasn't working in a shop again, when she said that I actually felt sorry for her, then she revealed Torchwood - Perfect Fit.

Then I loved that we got the set up to the Christmas ep, that was a very good way to end, not leaving us with too much sadness! I can't wait for Christmas now, for a whole other reason!!

[The Daemon Hunter]

Hehe, Daleks had attitude in this. Cybermen: We have an army of five million. How many are you?

Dalek: Four.


Classic!

[N4H]

Ep #13. Sniff, sniff... The last Who for a year (give or take a Christmas ep). Oh well...when's Torchwood? :popcorn:

The last time I have to say this for a year too. That was without a doubt the best episode I've seen so far, and maybe ever. Really, how could you top that.

I'll admit it. I got something in my eye during the last five minutes. I was blowing my nose and rubbing my eyes like a cliche.

Oh, we're doing favourite quotes. Mine was when the Daleks saw the Doctor in the backround on the screen and called attention to him, then they say, "The female's heart rate has just elevated". Mickey spits out the words, "Tell me about it".

Oh and also, "Five million cybermen, and you don't care, but one Doctor...now you're scared."

[Bored of the Dead]

OK, for some of you, you'll not understand why i'm so excited about Catherine Tate being in the Christmas Eppy, so i'm gonna post some clips og her at work in one of the funniest sketch shows of recent memory.
These will either make you laugh, or bug the crap out of you!!!!

NOTE: STRONG LANGUAGE

Catherine Tate - 'Nan' (http://youtube.com/watch?v=bPmRZ9qBYls&search=Catherine%20tate)
Its very British, but i'm confident you'll understand it.

Catherine Tate - 'Nan'2 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ILqHPHhFaJY&search=Catherine%20tate)

Catherine Tate - 'Nan' 3 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=X5IJ-uBgKiA&search=Catherine%20tate)
NOTE: The Old Guy in this played the Abzorboloff -Peter Kay

Catherine Tate - Cheese Sandwich (http://youtube.com/watch?v=p5n9V_adjqM&search=Catherine%20tate)
NOTE: Harrogate is a Town in Yorkshire:)

Catherine Tate - Mix (http://youtube.com/watch?v=85UgcaGkaWw&search=Catherine%20tate)
NOTE: Beverly is a Town in....yep - Yorkshire:)

Catherine Tate - 'Lauren' (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZyF-DsVCJOE&search=Catherine%20tate)

Catherine Tate - 'Lauren' 2 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Vu8xzo-lk84&search=Catherine%20tate)

Catherine Tate - 'Callas and Sait' (http://youtube.com/watch?v=sUHKZCx_I-U&search=Catherine%20tate)

Catherine Tate - 'Callas and Sait' 2 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9E4CoeRSdNk&search=Catherine%20tate)
NOTE: A 'Stone' is 12lbs(I think)

Catherine Tate - 'Callas and Sait' 2 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xMFYld1H71Q&search=Catherine%20tate)

Last One

Catherine Tate - 'Callas and Sait' 4 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=vb3DDddHH2A&search=Catherine%20tate)
NOTE: You MUST watch this last one after the other 'Callas and Sait' ones.

[Black Eye Guy]

I've never actually seen an episode of her show, what’s it called? But I have seen loads of clips from all over the place, she is incredibly funny, those Callas and Sait one's are so funny, and I love the "Do you think my mothers poor" one, I love how she just randomly gets to Do you think I'm a pikey (Sp?), lol.

I watched the ep again along side the commentary from the BBC website (Here) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episodes/2006/doomsday.shtml) and they pointed something I totally missed, which I think was one of the funniest jokes in the episode, when the doctor rings Jackie after she has escaped from the cybermen, she says they tried to download her, showing she really didn't understand what was going on when they were trying to upgrade her, lol!

[Black Eye Guy]

This last episode is amazing!! I just rewatched it, which was such a bad idea, I just said goodbye to a friend who left for college this morning so was already rocky and I just started balling for like 30 mins after watching it, makeing it the first offical program to make me cry!

But it's so good, excellently written and acted! Just amazing!!