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Gollanth

05-31-2007, 01:14 PM

I've been gnashing my teeth recently over a couple of news items that have dropped into my inbox, which seem to suggest that there is currently a Europe-wide campaign against gay people.

It seems that Poland's Spokesperson for Children's Rights is creating a furore over something that was killed off here years ago: link here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6698753.stm). The Teletubbies have been lambasted for various failings over the years but, while I thought we'd put this one to bed by now, it seems it's about to raise its ugly head once again - at least in Poland. Methinks she needs a little more real work to do.

Additionally, The Rev. Ian Paisley's son - also imaginatvely named Ian Paisley Jnr - has expressed the opinion that all gays are disgusting: link here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6705637.stm). While I'd expect nothing less from him - considering who his bigoted, egotistical, war-mongering father is - I'm a little surprised that there hasn't yet been an outcry about his comments. If the incidence of queer-bashing increases in NI in the next few weeks, I think the police should pay the mealy-mouthed Paisley a visit.

It seems the only one to step up to the line thus far is that gentle paragon of pacifism, Martin McGuinness (link here) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6707163.stm). I find it a bit hard to swallow that McGuinness - who's spent the past 30+ years authorising the cold-blooded murder of British soldiers and innocent Protestants because they happen to hold a different opinion to his - is the only person so far to express any outrage over these remarks. Somewhat ironic, don't you think?

I don't know what's going on around Europe at the moment, but it sure makes me glad (for once) that I live in the UK.

OK, rant over - for now.

goldenboy

05-31-2007, 03:35 PM

I've been noticing multiple stories about Poland coming into conflict with the larger EU - over gay stuff and other things. Just makes me wonder how the EU system will ever completely work itself out. Will Turkey ever make it in?

And how will Europe reconcile its secularism with all its religious immigrants? Just seems like a massive culture/values clash in the making.

N4H

05-31-2007, 03:47 PM

I've been gnashing my teeth recently over a couple of news items that have dropped into my inbox, which seem to suggest that there is currently a Europe-wide campaign against gay people.

I wasn't aware of this. Is this more your personal observation, or are others noticing it?

What I mean is, is it a recognizable movement, or is it more just a scattered reaction from homophobes to an increasingly visible homosexual presence in society? In either case, where's it coming from? Why now? Or is there actually more of it, or is this more noticeable, because there's a new, quicker tendency to react against it?

Is this more a European thing, I wonder? We get those kind of badly thought out remarks from public figures in NA from time to time, but it's nothing new. There's no noticeable increase.

Mr Pointy

06-01-2007, 03:41 AM

Gollanth

06-01-2007, 01:05 PM

Yea, it annoyed me that that old "Tinky Winky is gay" thing came up again. Shows how far behind Eastern European telly is though :)...didn't we go through that silliness here about ten years ago? Personally I didn't get it...I don't think any of the gay men I've known carried handbags...sloppy media stereotyping. As you say just an excuse to trot out the tired old gay-bashing stuff.
Well, I have known one or two gay men who make Tinky-Winky look positively butch, but then I do know some odd people. :) I'm not so sure that it's just the TV that's behind the times out there myself...... Poland seems to be a slightly backward Country in terms of our own standards, so I suppose this sort of comment shouldn't surprise me. (And as far as Turkey's entry to the EU goes, on current performance, I think the Devil might go to work on ice skates first!)

Totally OT, but I've always liked the thought of the Rev. Paisley conducting a wedding ceremony...go on, imagine it...I'll bet it makes you laugh :)
You're right, it DID make me laugh. The best of it is that Paisley is no more a real Reverend than I am. He bought his divinity degree and has never, to my knowledge, undergone training in Ministry. The man has been alive and preaching hatred for too many years. It's about time he left us and went somewhere much, much warmer.

What I mean is, is it a recognizable movement, or is it more just a scattered reaction from homophobes to an increasingly visible homosexual presence in society? In either case, where's it coming from? Why now? Or is there actually more of it, or is this more noticeable, because there's a new, quicker tendency to react against it?

Is this more a European thing, I wonder? We get those kind of badly thought out remarks from public figures in NA from time to time, but it's nothing new. There's no noticeable increase.
I hope it isn't an organised movement - and I think the fact that these two episodes are so geographically far apart is evidence for that - but there does seem to be more of this sort of item in news reports of late, and I'm not the only one to have noticed. I've had several work-colleagues mention both these items only this week, which is what prompted me to bring the matter up here.

Perhaps, because of my orientation, I'm more sensitive to these things, but I have noticed a definite increase and I sincerely hope it's the speedy reaction quotient which brings it into view. However, I see that there has still been no widespread condemnation of Paisley Jnr's remarks as yet. It is a good thing that McGuinness has stood up and spoken out, but he has such a history of outright lying, that I'm sure I'm not the only British person who wouldn't believe him if he said there is sand in the Sahara.

It does seem to be restricted to Europe at the moment, though I suspect it won't be long before the USTV God-Squad jump on the bandwagon. I have to say that doesn't worry me overmuch: does anybody sensible listen to anything the "God is love - send money" merchants say anyway?

However, I shall be keeping a close eye on the news for the next few weeks......

eponinethen

06-11-2007, 07:40 PM

Is this more a European thing, I wonder? We get those kind of badly thought out remarks from public figures in NA from time to time, but it's nothing new. There's no noticeable increase.
Well, I wouldn't say it is. It's scary what's been going on, what with the stuff that happened in Moscow and also when they started having "Pride" in Estonia a few years back.

Then again.. I was recently in Estonia and made a (very small) documentary on gay life/culture/attitudes there, and even though it's far far from perfect.... it was illegal to be gay there until 1992 (as in other ex Soviet states, for obvious reasons), and adoption is illegal as well as marriage/partnership registration.. We talked to random people there (in Tallinn), and even though their attitudes towards gay marriage and adoption varied quite a lot, most seemed to think people are becoming more positive towards homosexuals, and that the biggest problems are the nazis who ruin Pride etc.

Again, there are big problems here and there.. And Sweden is no exception, but I don't think we've ever been this close to changing the laws about marriage in order to let gay people marry on the same terms (we can still only register partnership here), and adoption became legal for gay couples a few years back.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though there are some tendencies right now, I hope it isn't a sign for what's to come.. and I'm hopeful etc.

(Sorry if this post makes no sense, I am very very tired..)