Discussion of Episode 3.11 "Utopia"- Aired 16/06/07 (BBC1 UK)

[Angel's vision]

This was a great eppy.

What stunned me was:

*The way in which the Master returned.
*The TARDIS being stolen along with the hand.
*The cliffhanger ending.

What puzzled me was:

*The watch. His essence inside it, how that came to be.
* Yana. Why didn't anyone twig that was standing for the last words of TFOB?.

Was Utopia a trap?

The following may contain spoilers!


I have a feeling that A) The Dr might recall the TARDIS back, or he fixes Jacks TimeVortex manipulator to get back, only one problem with that though, he might only have to take one passenger and it might not work at all!

B)The Dr is going to punish the Master in a cruel and horrible way, when the series ends, because of the timelords thing he is going to do, that will include the hand. I.E restart a new batch of timelords, but obvioulsy they wont be nice!

EDIT: Forgot to number the episode as 11! if a mod would be so kind...

[Mr Pointy]

Another superb ep...a little light on plot but the revelations and regeneration more than made up for that :)

*The watch. His essence inside it, how that came to be.
It was the same as the Doctor in Human Nature/Family of Blood...looks like all TARDISes have a Chameleon Arch as standard (or it's a common piece of Timelord tech)...though I wonder if they're going to explain how The Master escaped from his apparent fate in the TV movie (or are they going to write off that part of the continuity)

* Yana. Why didn't anyone twig that was standing for the last words of TFOB?.
I have to admit that I didn't get it until just after The Doctor ;)

Was Utopia a trap?
It seemed to be when The Master took that disk out of the computer and the screen went blank...but then why would the Professor have been trying to get the last humans to Utopia...perhaps Utopia holds answers for The Doctor that the Master doesn't want him to find...

[N4H]

I liked it, but it didn't blow me away the way the preceding 3 did. The revelations were fun, as you say. Good set up for what's to come too.


It was the same as the Doctor in Human Nature/Family of Blood...looks like all TARDISes have a Chameleon Arch as standard (or it's a common piece of Timelord tech)...though I wonder if they're going to explain how The Master escaped from his apparent fate in the TV movie (or are they going to write off that part of the continuity)


Yeah, that's something I wanted to ask you about Pointy. Where does this attitude come from I'm reading at the more Who-intensive boards where you're not allowed a curiosity about how the old and the new are going to match up.

At one such board the admin went so far as to say something like "This is my board, and I don't want you discussing the possible disparities between old, and new."

That seems kind of dictatorial, and stupid to me, because you're allowed to say something like the Master can access the Doctor's TARDIS so easy, because it used to be his, but you can't say "hey, wait a minute, I thought The Master was out of regenerations. I thought he was trapped in the eye of harmony".

Personally I'm hoping RTD will offer an explanation. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that on the bigger Who boards, so I won't register there. I'll just say it here. :wink:

[Mr Pointy]

It would be nice if they could include all elements from previous Who continuity...but as I remember it there were all sorts of contradictions in that. I'm just happy that they're coming up with such good stories that stuff like that doesn't really matter. Some older Who fans are a bit more possessive of things like that...I guess it's true of all fanboys though...we see it on BB as well. Personally, I'm just happy to go with the flow...as long as the writers don't stray too far off canon ;)

As for the forthright admin on the other board...he has a point...who pays the piper, calls the tune. If Vil/Buffy said the same here or on BB I wouldn't have a problem...it's her dime :)

[N4H]

Actually the more I think about it, the more I think I'm starting to get it. At larger fansites there's almost always a tendency to insist on what you must think, and how you must think it. You don't go on Whedonesque.com for example, and suggest SMG is a diva. They wouldn't allow it. They'd tolerate it a maximum of 2 posts. They kind of have to do that to prevent their large site from slipping into chaos, and also they do it, because they can. Because there's always 2 newbie's willing to take the place of anyone who doesn't like it. This is why I tend to gravitate towards the smaller boards, I think. More flexibility of thought.

For me, larger sites are more a place to lurk at, and discover what the accepted thought of the day is.

As far as Doctor Who goes it appears to go something like this. Big site thought appears to dictate there are at least 2 canons, possibly more, but for sure two. One for new, and one for old. If the 2 canons line up that is cool, and must be mentioned. If they don't, one must never notice it.

It's not unprecedented when you think about it. One might make a comparison to something like Conan where you have Robert E Howard canon, and a comic canon.

It's good to notice the rules though, because this appears to something in the formative process. It's kind of like the current crop of Marvel movies. The movies are subtly forming their own canon. For example in the current FF movie Galactus is a formless blob, not an actual character.

I postulate this is all a result of corporate ownership. One character, multiple canons. The exception would be something like Harry Potter where a single owner jealously guards her canon, or something like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, where a single mind is pampered with the ability to restrict it, because it is at present financially viable. .