Are You Religious? [Archive]

Black Eye Guy

12-30-2005, 04:35 PM

Re-read it taking the quoted into account. I was just saying that BEG complains that he doesn't understand why people DO believe, while he gives two "reasons" for not believing that are.. well, a bit ridiculous.

I totally agree with you my complaints are ridiculous, but I still believe them, I don't know why people would put themselves into all those religious obligations and rules. And I realise that for people Religion is Hope, But people can still have hope without religion. Also I believe that religion can give people a blind belief, where they can ignore facts for their beliefs. I understand that is not everyone, but it is some people, one example, and believe me I realise how stupid this story sounds (It pissed me off big time!) My BIOLOGY teacher (He is a total idiot) when teaching us Evolution started the chapter by saying "I believe in Religion and I fit the evidence of Evolution around that belief, now watch these videos" then he showed us two terrible videos on "Evolution" and we moved on!

prydain

12-30-2005, 04:41 PM

Huh? I kinda...didn't understand that. lol

eponinethen

12-30-2005, 05:03 PM

IBut people can still have hope without religion. Also I believe that religion can give people a blind belief, where they can ignore facts for their beliefs.
I understand you and I used to think like that. But not all people stop thinking for themselves just because they have faith in a religion. Some can still keep some sort of balance and not just become blind servants of god :D

(Agree that some religious people are insane though, no doubt about it, I had a teacher who told me I was gonna end up in hell quite soon ;))

prydain

12-30-2005, 06:12 PM

I understand you and I used to think like that. But not all people stop thinking for themselves just because they have faith in a religion. Some can still keep some sort of balance and not just become blind servants of god :D

(Agree that some religious people are insane though, no doubt about it, I had a teacher who told me I was gonna end up in hell quite soon ;))

That reminds me of my 7th grade Reading teacher! She was a religious superstitious fanatic and told us we were serving Satan on Halloween because we had costumes on...

Anyway, I don't agree with your assessment of religious people. Yes, there are fanatics and crazies out there...sadly those are who the media shows the public all the time. But religion is good when not it's taken out of line. It's been proven that people who live their religion and have faith in something live longer - on average. At least that's what some story on CNN said. :)

And there's nothing wrong with having faith in something. But when you have complete faith that God or whatever higher power you believe in will keep you completely safe and walk you through life...then that's blind faith and usually it's people like this who eventually turn away from their belief. It's happened to several people I know.

Anyway, I guess I'll be quiet now until the discussion touches upon something that I feel I can give my .02 on without becoming a nuisance. :)

Vilandra

12-30-2005, 10:04 PM

Eh? What are you saying? lol
That religion gives us hope. That's why people believe it.

prydain

12-30-2005, 10:35 PM

That religion gives us hope. That's why people believe it.

Ah. Gotcha. Yeah, it does provide hope, but for me, it's more than that...I dunno, deep down I just feel that it's right and that there IS something out there...I've always felt like that and I don't think I could stop believing even if I really wanted to. *shrug*

Velvet Sky

12-31-2005, 01:53 AM

Okay, I almost refrained from this thread, because in general I tend to avoid discussions about religion, as well, it's the sort of thing that easily creates conflict, which is something I tend to avoid.

But short answer, I'm an athiest... long answer, I don't discount the notion that there is an energy that flows through the universe and everything in it. Which technically is a notion that science backs up. There is energy in everything. And I wouldn't totally discount the idea that when people die the energy that was their essence moves back out into the world in some other form.

I've always been fascinated with the supernatural and things of that sort. And find some interesting ideas in religions. However I have some fundamental issues with, well, Western religions. I think because of their tendancy toward believe this and don't ask questions. Which is a generalization, and perhaps there are branches that encourage free thought and questioning things, and that's good. Whereas the Eastern religions have more of a phisophical feel, and in many cases encourage people to think for themselves and to question their world.

I'm sure I've made a lot of generalizations here, and I try hard to keep an open mind. Though in recent years I have found that harder to do. Perhaps blame it on the current of the times..? I don't know. Anyway... I hope I said all that in such a way as not to offend. As I can see where for some people, a belief in high powers provides a comfort or hope, something to guide them if that's what they need... it's just not an idea I subscribe to, or understand very well...

eponinethen

12-31-2005, 04:17 AM

That reminds me of my 7th grade Reading teacher! She was a religious superstitious fanatic and told us we were serving Satan on Halloween because we had costumes on...
Yeah.. my sort of teacher in 10th grade told me satan was getting closer and closer to me 'cause of the language I used. I used to call myself christian ('cause of the whole Jesus thing, not 'cause of the church), and she asked me how I could do that and still use such bad language... And I didn't think it mattered and she said not pretty mean (and imo insane) things to me..

Anyway, I don't agree with your assessment of religious people. Yes, there are fanatics and crazies out there...sadly those are who the media shows the public all the time. But religion is good when not it's taken out of line. It's been proven that people who live their religion and have faith in something live longer - on average. At least that's what some story on CNN said. :)

And there's nothing wrong with having faith in something. But when you have complete faith that God or whatever higher power you believe in will keep you completely safe and walk you through life...then that's blind faith and usually it's people like this who eventually turn away from their belief. It's happened to several people I know.
Was this also an answer to what I said..? 'Cause in that case: Whaaaat? That was so not what I was trying to say, I was trying to say pretty much exactly what you just said..

Gollanth

12-31-2005, 10:17 AM

...but I personally find it hard to grasp that people don't believe in anything at all. The fact that we could just spring out of nothing, advance this far, develop as people, and die to just vanish forever seems like a terribly depressing theology and seems more unbelievable to me than a higher power. However, I don't judge people or think less of them for being completely atheist...several of my friends are.

I see what you're saying prydain, but I find it equally difficult to grasp that people believe in the idea of some all-seeing, all-knowing being who has choreographed the entire universe up to its current point in time. I find it much easier to believe that we arrived here through some random collision of atoms and the proven law of survival of the fittest.

I have always felt, however, that if you have a strong religious belief, it must be a wonderful crutch in times of trouble and I have explored many tenets of many different religions in an attempt to find something that will help me through the bad times. Unfortunately, I just haven't been able to find anything that I can really perceive as having any degree of truth behind it and so I'd rather manage without than attempt to fit into a system that I don't really believe to be the truth.

And by the way, I'm not frightened of you because you believe. :laugh:

prydain

12-31-2005, 04:30 PM

Was this also an answer to what I said..? 'Cause in that case: Whaaaat? That was so not what I was trying to say, I was trying to say pretty much exactly what you just said..

Nope, that wasn't towards you. :)

I see what you're saying prydain, but I find it equally difficult to grasp that people believe in the idea of some all-seeing, all-knowing being who has choreographed the entire universe up to its current point in time. I find it much easier to believe that we arrived here through some random collision of atoms and the proven law of survival of the fittest.

I have always felt, however, that if you have a strong religious belief, it must be a wonderful crutch in times of trouble and I have explored many tenets of many different religions in an attempt to find something that will help me through the bad times. Unfortunately, I just haven't been able to find anything that I can really perceive as having any degree of truth behind it and so I'd rather manage without than attempt to fit into a system that I don't really believe to be the truth.

And by the way, I'm not frightened of you because you believe. :laugh:

Ah, but who says I believe that God knows every single thing that's happening at once? :) I'm afraid my views are probably much more complicated and different than what you'd find in any mainstream Christian church.

And it usually makes more sense as well. :wink:

Gollanth

12-31-2005, 08:13 PM

Ah, but who says I believe that God knows every single thing that's happening at once? :) I'm afraid my views are probably much more complicated and different than what you'd find in any mainstream Christian church.

And it usually makes more sense as well. :wink:
Ah, but who said you believed that? :)

Making more sense than most organised religions wouldn't be particularly difficult in my experience!

Tal Hawkins

12-31-2005, 08:27 PM

lol well according to most churches they're complicated becuase to even believe in God and everything in the Bible you have to have FAITH lol thats why nothing makes sense - if it made sense everyone would believe and it would be easy to believe and it would be worth less i suppose

granted i'm not very religious - i got to church occasionally with my family, but if they didnt go i wouldnt go either :: shrug :: i believe in God and everything but i dunno i question sometimes- and by question i mean everything

Anita Blake

01-06-2006, 08:07 PM

Okay, so I decided to put my two cents in as well since I've starting posting on the other heated subjects...I tried to avoid I really did, but you see I'm going to law school, and it was irresistible, this urge to debate. I miss debating on a team...:(

I like what everyone has said. All of you make sense in your own way, and I don't disagree totally with anyone...except the first post Black Eye Guy made...That was a bit short to agree with, hon. ;) Personally, if you were to ask me to pin a religion on myself, I'd go with Wicca. It is a form of Paganism and what I personally agree with. I decided a long time ago that I was going to figure out my own beliefs and find a relgion that agreed with them(and if I couldn't I'd start my own...LOL). It was Wicca. And I think its better to fit a religion to yourself than to fit yourself to a religion. You can't force yourself or anyone else to believe in something if they don't really believe it. Its like trying to convince someone you are handing them an orange, when clearly its an apple. :) I've never tried to convert anyone to my way of thinking, nor would I ever want anyone to do that to me. I believe in that saying "I don't believe in what you're saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Or however it goes. I respect whatever you believe in, as long as it doesn't require human sacrifices...my tolerance only goes so far...thats the time in the conversation when I run screaming for the door. :D I'm not saying I don't believe in God, or that church is a bad thing. I no longer attend Catholic/Christian church but I have many times in the past. I don't agree with many of their beliefs and I'm not ashamed to say it. I also don't put that much stock in the Bible, but that's my personal choice and I'm not criticizing anyone who does. I have 2 copies of it. I have read it before, and not only am I taking a Christian History and Thought class, I'm going to a baptist university in the fall.

I do go to church though. I attend the Waco Unitarian Universalist church whenever I feel the need to worship/pray with others. But I don't attend regularly and not very often either. I believe what I believe, and I know I'm a good person, even though I have many thoughts. I believe in karma and reincarnation, but also Summerland and Purgatory as well. I'm not saying I don't believe in God, 'cause that would be a lie. I just don't believe in God in the traditional sense.

Allycat

01-07-2006, 09:03 AM

You make a very sensible impression in most of your post. But I don't agree entirely. My tolerance toward other religions is a little less. Like yourself I won't stand for human sacrifices, but I won't respect animal sacrifices either and I won't respect any religions that supress minorities based on races, genders, or religion (unless that religion of course itself is guilty of the above). I don't know about you, but I think some Islamic laws requiring women to wear veils and not allowing them outside the house unaccompanied, or not behind the wheel of a car... that sorta thing... I find ridiculous.

Anita Blake

01-07-2006, 05:28 PM

I was just using an extreme example. I agree totally with everything you said. I was talking more of Western religions because I thought that was what we were talking about, but I am definitely less tolerant of some eastern religions. Like Islamic...I hate that people are treated like that.

Gollanth

01-08-2006, 05:44 AM

I've just been reading the previous two posts and thinking how refreshing it is to see people expressing thier personal opinion about Islam without having to cut out their own tongues.

Here in the UK, political correctness has reached such a crescendo now that to consider expressing an opinion of this nature is likely to bring down the wrath of society's do-gooders or, in a worst case scenario, actually result in a criminal prosecution, following the recent enactment of the Religious Hatred Bill. Things have now reached the stage where several schools here banned children from celebrating Christmas, for fear of offending any Moslems, and many city centres refused to put up Christmas lights and decorations. (Of course, it seems that offending Christians is quite in order.)

It is SO refereshing to find somewhere that one can express a personal opinion that, even if it may be disagreeable to others, does not result in ostracism and criminal proceedings.

I realise this is kinda off-topic, but I felt compelled to celebrate the freedom of speech forums like this can provide.

prydain

01-08-2006, 10:42 AM

In the UK you can be prosecuted for saying you don't like/agree with a particular religion?! Geez.

And what the hell are Muslims gonna do if they don't like that there are Christmas lights up? Unless it's like...from fear of being bombed or something I don't understand why anyone would care what Muslims - or anyone else, for that matter - thought.

Allycat

01-08-2006, 11:51 AM

We've experiences similar problems with Muslim minorities in our country for many years, but then came Pim Fortuyn. A really flamboyant right-wing politician with his own party who really said what people thought. But then he got killed... by some nature-activist.

Anyway, since there's been a lot more talk about the problems with minorities. Which a year ago resulted in the assasination of filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a terrorist group, which appears to be linked to Al'Qaida.

That then really led to things being put out in the open... which, as good as it might sound isn't really what it's cracked up to be... there's a lot of tension between the Dutch and several Islamic groups nowadays... it's like a time bomb waiting to explode... but then I guess that's true for the world at large.

Gollanth

01-08-2006, 11:57 AM

Yep, I'm afraid you can be prosecuted if it can be proved that your comment qualifies as "religious hatred". I believe it carries a jail sentence too.

The Government seems to care very much what Moslems think these days. OK, I can understand that a lot of them got a really bad time after September 11 and July 7, but things seem to have gone totally the other way now. It seems to me that the Government is actually frightened of upsetting any follower of Islam, but don't particularly give a shyte about anybody who doesn't.

Here's something that will strike a chord with a Southern person like yourself.....a couple of years ago, a guy was prosecuted for "racism" because an Islamic neighbour complained about the Union Jack (flag) he was flying from his house. The neighbour said that he felt "threatened" by the flag and the poor patriot who was prosecuted got a suspended sentence and was forced to take it down.

Methinks the lunatics are running the asylum!

goldenboy

01-08-2006, 12:39 PM

"To criticise a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous but to criticise their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom.

"The freedom to criticise ideas, any ideas - even if they are sincerely held beliefs - is one of the fundamental freedoms of society.

"A law which attempts to say you can criticise and ridicule ideas as long as they are not religious ideas is a very peculiar law indeed."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4075831.stm

Yay Rowan! What exactly is the latest on this law in the UK? Some version of this was passed? I've read of similar laws in Canada, Australia. Sends shivers down my spine (in a...bad way). I'm glad the US can't create such restrictions. I don't want people to live in fear, feel persecuted. But you have to be able to criticize things!

It's amazing, the silence about Theo Van Gogh in the US, Hollywood...you'd think fellow filmmakers would have an interest.

prydain

01-08-2006, 02:56 PM

Wow, and here I was thinking that freedom of speech was something that the UK had adopted by now. ;)

But then, we have the Patriot Act which allows the government to take away all of our rights so I can't say we're much better off.

Allycat

01-09-2006, 09:48 AM

goldenboy

01-15-2006, 11:29 AM

Just to jump on the defence of Europe to make us not seem entirely like uncultured barbarians (or bureacrats)... we have some restrictions on the freedom of speech, but that is only that you cannot by intentionally hurtful. You can disagree entirely, so long as it is respectfully. Of course, the problem this creates is what is respectful and can comedians parody things?

Yeah, it can be a tricky thing to mock ideas and not appear to be attacking whole groups of people. Comedians are basically being disrespectul, often hurtful—for a living, lol.

And, the US does have libel laws. You can be dragged into court if someone feels they can prove you were intentionally dishonest and malicious in public statements about them. Although, it's much harder for public figures to win these kinds of cases.

*~Hell Mouth~*

01-15-2006, 12:10 PM

Personally i am not religous, i don't beileve in God or anything like that, but i love Religous Education, its interesting.
I don't know why i don't beileve, maybe when i am older i will.

Tal Hawkins

01-15-2006, 01:22 PM

eh, believe whatever the heck you want =P im with Anita on the whole believe whatever you want, but dont try to force me into believing it too

i may be Christian but the Bible thumpers who go out and are really opinionated about their beliefs and try to argue with you about yours and prove you wrong and mess just..lol it annoys the hell out of me..discussing beliefs is one thing- arguing with someone to prove theirs wrong is something else entirely - especially when you're talking about a religion like Christianity when almost everything is based on faith

and yeah we most definitely have libel and slander laws and yeah tons of people will leap at the chance to sue you just to get you money- thats just the way mess is =P

and as for comedians, they can mock whoever they want as long as it's funny =p - if it isnt funny some jerk is gonna sue their a** for mocking their religion - i mean if most comedians can get away with making fun of white, black, asian people they definitely get away with making fun of Christians, Jews, Muslims - dang near everybody =P i'm not too worried about them personally

goldenboy

01-15-2006, 02:51 PM

OK, I tend to be sort of anti-antagonistic, anti-controversy too, like a lot of you guys have mentioned. Anyways...

I know folks like to accuse George Bush of this sort of thing too, but...yikes. This is the kind of thing that gives me the heebie jeebies....the apocalyptic religiosity of people in positions of power....

'Divine mission' driving Iran's new leader

...The most remarkable aspect of Mr Ahmadinejad's piety is his devotion to the Hidden Imam, the Messiah-like figure of Shia Islam, and the president's belief that his government must prepare the country for his return.

All streams of Islam believe in a divine saviour, known as the Mahdi, who will appear at the End of Days. A common rumour - denied by the government but widely believed - is that Mr Ahmadinejad and his cabinet have signed a "contract" pledging themselves to work for the return of the Mahdi and sent it to Jamkaran.

Mr Ahmadinejad appears to believe that these events are close at hand and that ordinary mortals can influence the divine timetable....

...World leaders had expected a conciliatory proposal to defuse the nuclear crisis after Teheran had restarted another part of its nuclear programme in August.

Instead, they heard the president speak in apocalyptic terms of Iran struggling against an evil West that sought to promote "state terrorism", impose "the logic of the dark ages" and divide the world into "light and dark countries".

The speech ended with the messianic appeal to God to "hasten the emergence of your last repository, the Promised One, that perfect and pure human being, the one that will fill this world with justice and peace".

In a video distributed by an Iranian web site in November, Mr Ahmadinejad described how one of his Iranian colleagues had claimed to have seen a glow of light around the president as he began his speech to the UN.

"I felt it myself too," Mr Ahmadinejad recounts. "I felt that all of a sudden the atmosphere changed there. And for 27-28 minutes all the leaders did not blink…It's not an exaggeration, because I was looking.

"They were astonished, as if a hand held them there and made them sit. It had opened their eyes and ears for the message of the Islamic Republic."

Western officials said the real reason for any open-eyed stares from delegates was that "they couldn't believe what they were hearing from Ahmadinejad".

Their sneaking suspicion is that Iran's president actually relishes a clash with the West in the conviction that it would rekindle the spirit of the Islamic revolution and - who knows - speed up the arrival of the Hidden Imam.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/14/wiran14.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/14/ixworld.html

goldenboy

01-25-2006, 11:21 AM

You guys might find this strange or ridiculous, I dunno. Seems to be coming from the perspective of a traditional conservative Christian, fearful for the future. Very interesting.

Moralistic Therapeutic Deism--the New American Religion

Moralistic Therapeutic Deism consists of beliefs like these: 1. "A god exists who created and ordered the world and watches over human life on earth." 2. "God wants people to be good, nice, and fair to each other, as taught in the Bible and by most world religions." 3. "The central goal of life is to be happy and to feel good about oneself." 4. "God does not need to be particularly involved in one's life except when God is needed to resolve a problem." 5. "Good people go to heaven when they die."

That, in sum, is the creed to which much adolescent faith can be reduced. After conducting more than 3,000 interviews with American adolescents, the researchers reported that, when it came to the most crucial questions of faith and beliefs, many adolescents responded with a shrug and "whatever."

"To the extent that the teens we interviewed did manage to articulate what they understood and believed religiously, it became clear that most religious teenagers either do not really comprehend what their own religious traditions say they are supposed to believe, or they do understand it and simply do not care to believe it. Either way, it is apparent that most religiously affiliated U.S. teens are not particularly interested in espousing and upholding the beliefs of their faith traditions, or that their communities of faith are failing in attempts to educate their youth, or both."

As the researchers explained, "For most teens, nobody has to do anything in life, including anything to do with religion. 'Whatever' is just fine, if that's what a person wants."

The casual "whatever" that marks so much of the American moral and theological landscapes--adolescent and otherwise--is a substitute for serious and responsible thinking. More importantly, it is a verbal cover for an embrace of relativism. Accordingly, "most religious teenager's opinions and views--one can hardly call them worldviews--are vague, limited, and often quite at variance with the actual teachings of their own religion."

In the end, this study indicates that American teenagers are heavily influenced by the ideology of individualism that has so profoundly shaped the larger culture. This bleeds over into a reflexive non-judgmentalism and a reluctance to suggest that anyone might actually be wrong in matters of faith and belief. Yet, these teenagers are unable to live with a full-blown relativism.

The researchers note that many responses fall along very moralistic lines--but they reserve their most non-judgmental attitudes for matters of theological conviction and belief. Some go so far as to suggest that there are no "right" answers in matters of doctrine and theological conviction.

Moralistic Therapeutic Deism is also "about providing therapeutic benefits to its adherents." As the researchers explained, "This is not a religion of repentance from sin, of keeping the Sabbath, of living as a servant of sovereign divinity, of steadfastly saying one's prayers, of faithfully observing high holy days, of building character through suffering, of basking in God's love and grace, of spending oneself in gratitude and love for the cause of social justice, et cetera. Rather, what appears to be the actual dominant religion among U.S. teenagers is centrally about feeling good, happy, secure, at peace. It is about attaining subjective well-being, being able to resolve problems, and getting along amiably with other people."

...teenagers have been listening carefully. They have been observing their parents in the larger culture with diligence and insight. They understand just how little their parents really believe and just how much many of their churches and Christian institutions have accommodated themselves to the dominant culture. They sense the degree to which theological conviction has been sacrificed on the altar of individualism and a relativistic understanding of truth. They have learned from their elders that self-improvement is the one great moral imperative to which all are accountable, and they have observed the fact that the highest aspiration of those who shape this culture is to find happiness, security, and meaning in life.

http://www.christianpost.com/php_functions/print_friendly.php?tbl_name=editorial&id=322

prydain

01-25-2006, 12:21 PM

I actually think it makes good points. I have always been interested in religion, and not just the one I practice, but none of my peers could even tell me what THEY believe. Yet they sit there and make fun of any denomination is not theirs - mostly because their ministers, going against one of the beliefs of the Christian faith, tells them why every other Christian demomination is stupid, wrong, etc. And when I point out they're not being very Christian-like, they look at me like I don't know what I'm talking about.

Another thing that bugs me is when they pretend to know something about a certain religion when they actually don't. For instance, today in Algebra 2, some kids were making fun of Jehovah's Witnesses, some den. that I forget the name of, and Mormons. They didn't actually know a single thing about either one but were trading "facts" that they heard - I knew more about every one than THEY did, and their stupidity and ignorance really, really pissed me off.

But anyway.

Kathryn Merteuil

01-25-2006, 08:25 PM

My family is Roman Catholic making me Roman Catholic even though I have an interest in different types of religions just like different cultures and stuff. I am always interested in lots of things.

Allycat

01-27-2006, 04:49 PM

I have to say Goldenboy's article makes some good points, because I recognise quite some things of what is described in the article in my own views of religion. Although I am sure the research was done responsibly, I think the interpretation of what is happening may be very off the mark... to illustrate I want to quote a piece that Goldenboy omitted, which I think reveal more of the author's intentions:

Does this mean that America is becoming more secularized? Not necessarily. These researchers assert that Christianity is either degenerating into a pathetic version of itself or, more significantly, Christianity is actively being colonized and displaced by a quite different religious faith.

This radical transformation of Christian theology and Christian belief replaces the sovereignty of God with the sovereignty of the self. In this therapeutic age, human problems are reduced to pathologies in need of a treatment plan. Sin is simply excluded from the picture, and doctrines as central as the wrath and justice of God are discarded as out of step with the times and unhelpful to the project of self-actualization.

and

This research project demands the attention of every thinking Christian. Those who are prone to dismiss sociological analysis as irrelevant will miss the point. We must now look at the United States of America as missiologists once viewed nations that had never heard the gospel. Indeed, our missiological challenge may be even greater than the confrontation with paganism, for we face a succession of generations who have transformed Christianity into something that bears no resemblance to the faith revealed in the Bible. The faith "once delivered to the saints" is no longer even known, not only by American teenagers, but by most of their parents. Millions of Americans believe they are Christians, simply because they have some historic tie to a Christian denomination or identity.

We now face the challenge of evangelizing a nation that largely considers itself Christian, overwhelmingly believes in some deity, considers itself fervently religious, but has virtually no connection to historic Christianity. Christian Smith and his colleagues have performed an enormous service for the church of the Lord Jesus Christ in identifying Moralistic Therapeutic Deism as the dominant religion of this American age. Our responsibility is to prepare the church to respond to this new religion, understanding that it represents the greatest competitor to biblical Christianity. More urgently, this study should warn us all that our failure to teach this generation of teenagers the realities and convictions of biblical Christianity will mean that their children will know even less and will be even more readily seduced by this new form of paganism. This study offers irrefutable evidence of the challenge we now face. As the motto reminds us, "Knowledge is power."

THE BLUE

01-27-2006, 05:14 PM

I am not religious, I just believe in the existence of a god, but that's that.

goldenboy

01-28-2006, 11:55 AM

I have to say Goldenboy's article makes some good points, because I recognise quite some things of what is described in the article in my own views of religion. Although I am sure the research was done responsibly, I think the interpretation of what is happening may be very off the mark...

I agree the guy analyzing the study is clearly an evangelist, speaking to assumed fellow Christians.

I'm not sure I agree with him that a majority of Americans are "fervently religious", if that was what he was trying to say. I just don't know. I do sense there are general feelings of "spirituality" and a vague notion of Christian principles out there. I agree with him about that. For example, I sense that a majority of people calling themselves Catholic in America are just sort of "cultural Catholics". They don't really do much other than go to mass once a week, or month, or twice a year—if at all.

I'm not sure that traditional Christianity is being replaced formally, with another organized, pseudo-Christianity. Maybe he's speaking more to the Protestant evangelical mega-church phenomenon out there, with these pastors who are almost like rock stars, motivational speakers...a lot of that stuff seems to have a theraputic, self-oriented feel to it.

I think a huge part of the cultural split in America, the Red/Blue divide, involves religion. Traditional, conservative Christians vs an increasingly secular culture. Some of it is urban vs rural. So many people now are raised with no formal training, knowledge of religion. They find it bizarre. It's just getting more extreme in a way. Both sides are getting more antagonistic, digging in. Each side accuses the other of perverting the founding principles of the nation.

It seems to me there aren't many pure atheists, pure secular humanists in America. There's always at least a low-level craving for spirituality, almost everywhere. And this evangelist wants to claim that spiritual longing for his notion of traditional Christianity.

I dunno, lol. It's such a gigantic thing to try to analyze...

Allycat

01-28-2006, 01:01 PM

I do sense there are general feelings of "spirituality" and a vague notion of Christian principles out there. I agree with him about that. For example, I sense that a majority of people calling themselves Catholic in America are just sort of "cultural Catholics". They don't really do much other than go to mass once a week, or month, or twice a year—if at all.

I'm not sure that traditional Christianity is being replaced formally, with another organized, pseudo-Christianity. Maybe he's speaking more to the Protestant evangelical mega-church phenomenon out there, with these pastors who are almost like rock stars, motivational speakers...a lot of that stuff seems to have a theraputic, self-oriented feel to it.

Great summary of the article ;). What I find particularly problematic about it, is that the author explains the current trend as something negative. Religion is not a static thing. Apart from a believe, it is also a social construction, and if society changes, the construction must change too. So far, most religions have seen a decline in their numbers and I think this is mostly due to the fact that they have not adapted to Modernity and Post-modernity. It seems to me that people have taken it unto their own hands to do it. Moreover, I think that if you consider the function of all kinds of religions in all kinds of different cultures, that it has mostly had the intention to be therapeutic... to offer some kind of hope.

goldenboy

01-28-2006, 02:27 PM

Great summary of the article ;). What I find particularly problematic about it, is that the author explains the current trend as something negative. Religion is not a static thing. Apart from a believe, it is also a social construction, and if society changes, the construction must change too. So far, most religions have seen a decline in their numbers and I think this is mostly due to the fact that they have not adapted to Modernity and Post-modernity.

I agree that modernity and post-modernity are a direct challenge to organized religion. Personally, I'm not convinced that religion can truly coexist with a postmodern mindset.

I think a conservative Christian would come back at you and say that Christian "adaptation" is, in a sense, a direct contradiction of Christ's message. Society, culture, technology evolves, but not basic Christian teachings: salvation only through Christ, the Golden Rule, etc. They'd argue it's the Church's duty to shape and transform the culture, not the other way around. "Go out and be fishers of men..." They see civilization as continously lurching towards depravity, selfishness, sin...if it's without the basic tenets of the Christian faith. They'd have the Church dwindle down to a few members rather than tweak the message.

Net church attendence has surely declined, since say the 50s, 60s—even in the States. But Christianity has been growing by leaps and bounds in Africa and parts of Asia, I believe. A typical African Catholic is much more traditional, conservative than a typical American Catholic. But maybe Africa's not quite "postmodern" just yet...

It's a tricky thing. It seems that in the States, the churches that have actually grown the fastest have been the most conservative (traditional). Mainline Protestantism, more liberal churches have been in decline, if you can have faith in surveys, heh...

http://listserv.episcopalian.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0209d&L=virtuosity&D=1&H=1&P=1790

prydain

01-28-2006, 04:47 PM

It's a tricky thing. It seems that in the States, the churches that have actually grown the fastest have been the most conservative (traditional). Mainline Protestantism, more liberal churches have been in decline, if you can have faith in surveys, heh...

http://listserv.episcopalian.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0209d&L=virtuosity&D=1&H=1&P=1790

The Mormon church is very conservative and it's been growing pretty fast, too.

To a certain extent, I don't think that religion itself should conform to society's changes, because to me, that defies the whole idea of it. People alter their beliefs to make them feel less guilty about doing whatever they feel like, and I don't agree with that mindset at all, but I'm not saying that you should have a set, specific attitude about your religion/worship...just that it shouldn't change so much to conform what YOU want that it's not the same thing anymore.

Allycat

01-28-2006, 06:19 PM

I don't think that change defies the whole idea of religion. Since halfway the nineteenth century, when Darwin published his Evolution theory, we know that the book of Genesis cannot be "the Truth". So, instead of saying it is a literal account of how the Earth was created, with the new knowledge we posses, take the creation-process to be metaphorical. (Or at least, the non-conservatives do.) Is this wrong? I believe not... not adapting, I think, is obstinate. Humanity has always been searching for answer, knowledge, new ideas; it allows us to evolve: going being Nomads, to being living in stone houses, to having steam-engines, and communicating over the internet... and society has continually changed with it and so have our ideas about the society and world in general. There is no way that a religion can remain completely unchanged through the course of all of that... and it hasn't. The Roman Catholic church isn't effectively ruling half of Europe; they're not trying to amass massive wealth anymore; we dont have to pay to have our sins repented; we don't burn witches anymore... granted we do still go on our little crusades to the Middle-East every now and then, but I think you can safely say that the role of Church/Religion has become very different... and it was already before Post-moderism. Enlightment already ensured that... surely, most Conservatives of today don't think we ought to also go back to the times before Enlightenment... Goldenboy and Prydain17, do you think religion should go back to what it was before that? I don't. I think that the world is in constant motion (and I don't mean revolving around the Sun)... in terms of our biology, look at how much mankind looks different from 2000 years ago (how much taller for one), and in terms of knowledge gained from science, and in terms of what our society looks like (there's a big difference betweent he Feudal System and Capitalistic Democracy, wouldn't you say)... on all fronts, one could argue, we are positively evolving... and with that Religion must evolve with us. Although, its core elements will still be the same... "Thou shall not murder" shall remain so long as (and just as) our biological inner-workings require us to breathe.

prydain

01-28-2006, 07:11 PM

What's Darwin and religion have to do with anything? After all, it's a theory. Not a proven fact. I don't believe that what we read in Genesis is literal or exact but that still does not give evolution any ground.

And you are misunderstanding me. I said people are changing their core religious beliefs. I said nothing about burning people for witchcraft or paying to be forgiven of your sins - I don't believe that was EVER right and was a corruption of the church because it wanted power. God never said it was right to do that.

But what I mean is...the Catholic church teaches that you get into heaven by good acts, and Protestants believe you get in just by claiming that Jesus is your savior, and that you can sin all you want and as long as you say you're sorry you'll make it to heaven. I read the scriptures quite a bit and neither seems to be 100% correct, but it's a mixture of the two, which makes much more sense than just one by itself. My friends, who never read the Bible themselves but go to church, have preachers and ministers who changes elements of religious teachings to make it more acceptable and mainstream, so he'll get more listeners.

Religion has never been that mainstream. In the Bible, God's most faithful followers were always persecuted and the listeners of the prophets were always in small numbers. I don't think that's changed much at all. Yeah, tons more people believe in the Bible but there are hundreds of different demominations who change what they teach a bit so I don't know how anyone could know which one is the most correct.

That rant probably doesn't make any sense. lol

Allycat

01-29-2006, 07:24 AM

What's Darwin and religion have to do with anything? After all, it's a theory. Not a proven fact. I don't believe that what we read in Genesis is literal or exact but that still does not give evolution any ground.

I'm sorry sweetie, but it is commonly accepted by Biologists to be fact; albeit that they're still fine-tuning it, the basic concept is true.

And you are misunderstanding me. I said people are changing their core religious beliefs. I said nothing about burning people for witchcraft or paying to be forgiven of your sins - I don't believe that was EVER right and was a corruption of the church because it wanted power. God never said it was right to do that.

But what I mean is...the Catholic church teaches that you get into heaven by good acts, and Protestants believe you get in just by claiming that Jesus is your savior, and that you can sin all you want and as long as you say you're sorry you'll make it to heaven. I read the scriptures quite a bit and neither seems to be 100% correct, but it's a mixture of the two, which makes much more sense than just one by itself. My friends, who never read the Bible themselves but go to church, have preachers and ministers who changes elements of religious teachings to make it more acceptable and mainstream, so he'll get more listeners.

Religion has never been that mainstream. In the Bible, God's most faithful followers were always persecuted and the listeners of the prophets were always in small numbers. I don't think that's changed much at all. Yeah, tons more people believe in the Bible but there are hundreds of different demominations who change what they teach a bit so I don't know how anyone could know which one is the most correct.

That rant probably doesn't make any sense. lol

It does make some sense... I simply don't agree with it :p

goldenboy

01-29-2006, 10:16 AM

Ooh, this is getting fun, lol.

I'm not sure how far apart we actually are, you guys. I agree that culture, human institutions evolve, are corrupted, perverted (the Catholic Church being a prime example). But sometimes, they can right themselves, reform, get back on message...

Rules, rituals, even dogmas change. But I still think that Christianity has to hold onto certain core concepts to survive intact—and continue to attract new followers. I think conservative Churches are growing in America to the extent that they appear actively opposed to the dominant culture. Churches that at least appear to be conforming, adapting to the latest whims and evolving attitudes of society don't seem to be doing that well...

I think people attracted to Christianity want comfort and solace (therapy?), yes. But also maybe a sense of mission, purpose for their lives—a goal to change, better the world.

And AC, you're right about science, modernity. John Paul II seemed to accept evolution in principle—as a possible, theoretical tool of creation. I don't know many Catholics who read Genesis literally...

prydain

01-29-2006, 01:19 PM

I'm sorry sweetie, but it is commonly accepted by Biologists to be fact; albeit that they're still fine-tuning it, the basic concept is true.

I am perfectly aware that biologists consider it to be fact but that doesn't mean it's true. It simply doesn't make sense, whether you are a believer in it with God added in the mix or not.

It makes the least sense WITHOUT God. Please name one thing that can be created from nothingness, whether it be alive or not. There is nothing. Everything is made from something else - maybe God too. But a little ball of matter - how could that explode and make everything we know? That's a lot of randomness to end up making a planet as complex as ours. I think the idea that a single cell evolved into everything we know - us, every animal, and plants, to be extremely ridiculous.

And *with* God, it still doesn't make much sense. For one thing, in the Bible it says that we are created in God's image - I don't believe God is a single-celled organism or a monkey. I've said that countless times but whatever.

I have read tons of things explaining the theory of evolution and Creationism. Both are pretty easy to support or disprove, neither will ever be accepted as 100% fact. So people can believe what they want, but you can't say that evolution is right.

goldenboy

01-29-2006, 01:59 PM

I read a book recently that touches on the Intelligent Design school of thought, I guess you'd call it. Written by a committed Christian who used to be an atheist. He basically attempts to "build a case" for some sort of intent, some sense of purpose in the Universe. Really fun reading. Among other things, he tries to point out gaps in evolutionary theory as it stands right now. But I.D. isn't science, technically—I don't think.

Sometimes I was thinking "this is neat". Other times it was like, "This is BS, I can't follow where this guy's going". I think he was actually least convincing when trying to pick apart evolution. His other, sort of logical, philosophical arguments were more interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310240506/sr=1-1/qid=1138563881/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-4599381-2479005?%5Fencoding=UTF8

I try to not completely shut my mind to anything...but it's hard. I think a person's natural temperment kind of affects what ideas you may or may not be receptive to.

prydain

01-29-2006, 02:08 PM

Oh that reminds me - I've had like 10 teachers over the years who have had to teach evolution/intelligent design or whatever and what's weird is that not a single one of them believed it - they told the class before they started that they didn't believe it but were only teaching it because they were required by law, lol.

But I think it's stupid we can learn the "religion of scientists" but we can't discuss ANY "spiritual" religion. That's completely...insane.

goldenboy

01-29-2006, 03:14 PM

I do think they should at least acknowledge the social controversy when teaching, the social context of the big human origins brewhaha.

Public schools can teach about religion, right? Like, comparative religion class. Just can't appear to endorse a particular religion.

I think individual students should be allowed to express their opinions about religion in class...such a politicized issue in the States.

prydain

01-29-2006, 04:10 PM

Around here, no schools teach even ABOUT religion. Certain subjects mention them but don't really hold any respect whatsoever for any spiritual religion, and kids can discuss religion but teachers can't even really say ANYTHING in religious conversations, whether they are endorsing it or not, which is really stupid.

I swear the people in government who make these laws are smoking crack.

Allycat

01-29-2006, 05:27 PM

I think the main point in these Educational policies is that Science can be proven... Evolution theory, Big Bang... those things can be proven. God... you have to either believe or not. It's not an objective truth. I'm sort of going Gradgrind on you here... but "Now, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts." But I think that schools should also teach facts about different world religions (not just Christianity, but all the big religions of the world). This way these students will have knowledge (and hopefully understanding) of how other religions work and based on that knowledge they may be able to form their own beliefs. (Much like goldenboy suggest.) I think that religious accounts of creation belong on a class like that, not in biology or physics.

BTW: I want to clear up that before the big bang there was not nothing... but rather time, space, mass, and energy running chaotically through each other... how you interpret that... beats most scientists.

prydain

01-29-2006, 05:53 PM

And how have they proven that evolution is real? The missing "links" could simply be species that went extinct. The fact that the DNA of every living thing just goes to prove that we were made by one God, etc.

And BTW, in sixth grade, our book said that before the big bang there was a little ball of matter that one day exploded and somehow formed the universe.

Now, here's where science and creationism could go hand in hand: I don't believe that God can make something out of nothing, even a god has to go by the laws of pyshics. So I believe that that matter WAS there, and all the elements, and God made the world from that, but I don't believe we were ever monkeys or any silly thing like that.

I've been reading some of the earlier philosophies of the Mormon founders (the church today teaches differently b/c they don't want to be "controversial", I guess) and a lot of it could make sense scientifically, so I've formed a lot of beliefs on that, but I think there are elements of truth in every religion.

Cordelia Chase*

01-30-2006, 01:33 AM

I mean I frew up in a christain family. I am very reliogious but somethings make me wonder. I would go in depth but that would take too long....

Allycat

01-30-2006, 08:23 AM

I don't believe we were ever monkeys or any silly thing like that.

Lol, I think that we better stop the discussion here... 'cause I think we are never going to agree on this. You believe Humans did not evolve from monkeys; I believe they did... and I don't see either of us changing our minds.

goldenboy

02-21-2006, 03:07 PM

Alright, N4H tipped me off to this site:

http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=10907&first=yes

Never would have thought I had Islamic inclinations, lol.

You scored as agnosticism.

You are an agnostic. Though it is generally taken that agnostics neither believe nor disbelieve in God, it is possible to be a theist or atheist in addition to an agnostic. Agnostics don't believe it is possible to prove the existence of God (nor lack thereof). Agnosticism is a philosophy that God's existence cannot be proven. Some say it is possible to be agnostic and follow a religion; however, one cannot be a devout believer if he or she does not truly believe.

agnosticism

79%

Islam

63%

Christianity

58%

atheism

50%

Hinduism

46%

Judaism

42%

Paganism

42%

Satanism

21%

Buddhism

21%

prydain

02-21-2006, 03:33 PM

I'm taking it right now and I have no idea how it's gunna turn out - see, technically I'm Christian but I also believe in some elements of other religions so it's kinda complicated. :)

Well it would appear that I'm a Buddhist. -_-

That quiz doesn't really express my belief system and the statements were too absolute so I didn't firmly agree with a lot of stuff. For example, I don't believe in abortion usually, but I think there are instances in which it's acceptable.

But then again this may reflect my beliefs more than just saying I'm a Christian since I'm definitely not 100% Catholic, Protestant, etc. Like I said earlier, I think there are elements of truth in all religions but I consider myself to be Christian since I believe in God and all.

Here are my results:

You scored as Buddhism.

Your beliefs most closely resemble those of Buddhism. Do more research on Buddhism and possibly consider becoming Buddhist, if you are not already. In Buddhism, there are Four Noble Truths: (1) Life is suffering. (2) All suffering is caused by ignorance of the nature of reality and the craving, attachment, and grasping that result from such ignorance. (3) Suffering can be ended by overcoming ignorance and attachment. (4) The path to the suppression of suffering is the Noble Eightfold Path, which consists of right views, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right-mindedness, and right contemplation. These eight are usually divided into three categories that base the Buddhist faith: morality, wisdom, and samadhi, or concentration. In Buddhism, there is no hierarchy, nor caste system; the Buddha taught that one's spiritual worth is not based on birth.

Buddhism

92%

Christianity

63%

Islam

58%

Judaism

50%

Hinduism

42%

Paganism

38%

agnosticism

33%

Satanism

33%

atheism

0%

Akasha

02-22-2006, 07:59 PM

I think the main point in these Educational policies is that Science can be proven... Evolution theory, Big Bang... those things can be proven.

what? where? are all my science teachers wrong in calling these things theories? i mean, i dont know everything about science but i do know that theories are not proven, thats why they're theories

Akasha

02-22-2006, 08:15 PM

You scored as Christianity.

Your views are most similar to those of Christianity. Do more research on Christianity and possibly consider being baptized and accepting Jesus, if you aren't already Christian. Christianity is the second of the Abrahamic faiths; it follows Judaism and is followed by Islam. It differs in its belief of Jesus, as not a prophet nor historical figure, but as God in human form. The Holy Trinity is the concept that God takes three forms: the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost (sometimes called Holy Spirit). Jesus taught the idea of instead of seeking revenge, one should love his or her neighbors and enemies. Christians believe that Jesus died on the cross to save humankind and forgive people's sins.

Christianity
96%

Islam
46%

Judaism
42%

Buddhism
38%

Hinduism
29%

Paganism
29%

Satanism
4%

agnosticism
0%

atheism
0%

check me out. 4% satanic. little devil in me :vampy:

XDruX

02-23-2006, 01:54 AM

Ok so, here's mine....

Your views are most similar to those of Christianity. Do more research on Christianity and possibly consider being baptized and accepting Jesus, if you aren't already Christian. Christianity is the second of the Abrahamic faiths; it follows Judaism and is followed by Islam. It differs in its belief of Jesus, as not a prophet nor historical figure, but as God in human form. The Holy Trinity is the concept that God takes three forms: the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost (sometimes called Holy Spirit). Jesus taught the idea of instead of seeking revenge, one should love his or her neighbors and enemies. Christians believe that Jesus died on the cross to save humankind and forgive people's sins.

Christianity

83%

Buddhism

75%

agnosticism

67%

Judaism

67%

Paganism

50%

Hinduism

33%

Satanism

29%

atheism

17%

Islam

17%

For those who know me from BB, I think you aren't surprised that I scored 29% in Satanism, are you?

eponinethen

02-23-2006, 03:33 AM

So, I don't like this test, this is just not even funny!

You scored as Satanism.

Your beliefs most closely resemble those of Satanism! Before you scream, do a bit of research on it. To be a Satanist, you don't actually have to believe in Satan. Satanism generally focuses upon the spiritual advancement of the self, rather than upon submission to a deity or a set of moral codes. Do some research if you immediately think of the satanic cult stereotype. Your beliefs may also resemble those of earth-based religions such as paganism.

Satanism 79%

atheism 71%

agnosticism 67%

Buddhism 63%

Islam 58%

Paganism 58%

Judaism 46%

Christianity 25%

Hinduism 8%

What the....

prydain

02-23-2006, 07:15 AM

*gasp* Stay away! ::holds up cross and stake::

Just kidding. :)

goldenboy

02-23-2006, 08:43 AM

Huh. Very interesting:

Satanism is a religious, semi-religious and/or philosophical movement whose adherents recognize Satan as an archetype, pre-cosmic force, actual living entity, or some aspect of human nature. Although named for Satan, a name associated with evil and temptation, Satanism is more commonly the name given to certain spiritual paths which emphasize the Left-Hand Path, as opposed to the much more common Right-Hand Path. Left-Handers believe in spiritual enrichment through their own work on themselves, and that ultimately they are answerable only to themselves, while Right-Handers believe in spiritual enrichment through the dissolution or submission of the self to (or into) something greater. LaVeyans do not in fact worship a deity called Satan, or necessarily any other deity, nor do they follow a principle of evil. This aspect of their beliefs is very commonly misunderstood due to the presence of theistic Satanists, who revere Satan as a literal being.

Instead of divine laws or naturistic principles (such as in Wicca), Satanism generally focuses upon material or physical advancement of the self with guidance from external higher beings or external principles, instead of submission to a deity or a set of moral codes. For this reason, many contemporary Satanists eschew traditional religious beliefs, attitudes and worship in favor of more egoistic, self-centering worldviews, natural law, survival of the fittest and practices such as materialism, individualism and magic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

The terms Left-Hand Path and Right-Hand Path refer to a postulated dichotomy between two distinct types of religion. The exact meaning of the terms has varied over time; the most modern usage regards religions which focus upon the worship of one or more deities and the observance of strict moral codes as belonging to the Right-Hand Path, while religions which value the advancement of the self over other goals are considered to belong to the Left-Hand Path. This usage of the terms is invoked almost exclusively by proponents of the Left-Hand Path; opponents (almost always of religions described as "Right-Hand Path") either argue that this is a means of dividing religions, is a mislabeled or false dichotomy, or, that much of what is called "left hand" is in actuality satanism, or "black magic".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-Hand_Path

This is kinda how I see a lot of New Agey belief systems—completely self-involved, working on understanding the self. Scientology seems like that somewhat as well.

I feel more...introverted, individualistic than most people I know. I think that's partly why I find Buddhism (as I understand it) so distasteful—it seems to require the dissolution of the self, non-personhood to achieve Nirvana. Sometimes I feel guilty and mad at myself for not being more involved in the world. I think many of the social ills in America, the West, relate to extreme individualism and materialism...this is the thread for philosophical rambling, right? lol

eponinethen

02-23-2006, 11:25 AM

Well, I get that Satanism doesn't have to be all about worshipping Satan but it sure sounds that way if you just hear the name.. But I guess it must have something to do with me believing in people more than in God and stuff.. hm.. still weird, since I really don't believe in Satan in any way (believe more in God in that case)..

Wesley

02-23-2006, 11:39 AM

See Akasha, I told you satanism wasn't the worship of the devil.

prydain

02-23-2006, 12:08 PM

See Akasha, I told you satanism wasn't the worship of the devil.

Well I big to differ, at least in some instances, because there's a whole clique at school who call themselves Satanists and they do indeed worship SATAN. :wink0: As in, God's mortal enemy. I had a class with a few of them last year...kinda disturbing.

But anyhoo.

goldenboy

02-23-2006, 12:19 PM

Well I big to differ, at least in some instances, because there's a whole clique at school who call themselves Satanists and they do indeed worship SATAN. :wink0: As in, God's mortal enemy. I had a class with a few of them last year...kinda disturbing.

But anyhoo.

I wonder if these folks think of themselves as Traditional Satanists:

Traditional Satanism, also known as Theistic Satanism, is the religious worship of Satan or Lucifer. He ()or She is sometimes perceived as the Muse and the Bestower of knowledge (Gnosis). Theistic Satanists may place a great emphasis on the Serpent in the Biblical tale of Genesis, whom they perceive to be one of the many emanations or incarnations of Lucifer or Satan. According to such teachings, Satan blessed mankind with the "forbidden" fruit of knowledge of good and evil. From this perspective, knowing good is a good thing, but knowing evil is even better, for someone who knows and recognizes evil is better-armed and equipped to fight evil. It is for this reason that Theistic Satanists perceive Satan not as a Force of evil but rather a Force of good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Satanism

Actually, I tend to doubt that most kids who call themselves "satanists" are this sophisticated in their thinking. Maybe they just want to piss off their parents, lol. Or, they're bored, abused, deranged...who knows...

Angel's vision

02-23-2006, 03:12 PM

Just looking at those slipnot hoodies does it for me....(sorry all slipnot fans!)
I just abor satanism i am christain so there is my bias i'm afraid...

prydain

02-23-2006, 03:43 PM

I wonder if these folks think of themselves as Traditional Satanists:

Actually, I tend to doubt that most kids who call themselves "satanists" are this sophisticated in their thinking. Maybe they just want to piss off their parents, lol. Or, they're bored, abused, deranged...who knows...

No, I don't think so...a lot of them haven't let their parents know and they think Satan *is* evil and want to be evil too, for some reason. I know one guy who thinks God is the evil one but the others just knowingly worship evil.

And they ALL own Slipknot hoodies, lol.

Summers Blood

02-23-2006, 04:04 PM

Well what a load of rubbish. I'm a Christian through and through so how I scored as a Buddhist I don't know. You scored as Buddhism.

http://images.quizfarm.com/1110082346Buddha.jpg

Your beliefs most closely resemble those of Buddhism. Do more research on Buddhism and possibly consider becoming Buddhist, if you are not already. In Buddhism, there are Four Noble Truths: (1) Life is suffering. (2) All suffering is caused by ignorance of the nature of reality and the craving, attachment, and grasping that result from such ignorance. (3) Suffering can be ended by overcoming ignorance and attachment. (4) The path to the suppression of suffering is the Noble Eightfold Path, which consists of right views, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right-mindedness, and right contemplation. These eight are usually divided into three categories that base the Buddhist faith: morality, wisdom, and samadhi, or concentration. In Buddhism, there is no hierarchy, nor caste system; the Buddha taught that one's spiritual worth is not based on birth.

Buddhism 79%
Christianity 54%
Paganism 54%
Judaism 46%
Islam 33%
Satanism 33%
agnosticism 33%
Hinduism 17%
atheism 13%

goldenboy

02-23-2006, 04:24 PM

I thought this was an interesting piece on "Christian/Youthful Satanism". Some sort of "goth expert", and the research of a cop, apparently:

http://www.darkwaver.com/subculture/satanism-youth.php

prydain

02-23-2006, 08:41 PM

Yay, another non-Buddhist! ;)

prydain

02-23-2006, 08:48 PM

I thought this was an interesting piece on "Christian/Youthful Satanism". Some sort of "goth expert", and the research of a cop, apparently:

http://www.darkwaver.com/subculture/satanism-youth.php

That was interesting to read. But to me, Satanism is Satanism, lol. And I don't get why they call paganism Satanism if they don't believe in Satan. (Going back to previous posts.)

Oh well, if some teenager who thinks his life is awful wants to go and serve evil, not my problem.

MentPatient

06-29-2006, 08:12 AM

Not religious, like BEG, I find it annoyingly ridiculous.

goldenboy

08-08-2007, 05:05 PM

This pseudonymous know-it-all, Spengler, is always writing about these huge, macro trends, trying to predict world events. Thought this one was pretty wild. Tens of millions of Chinese Pentecostals? I had no idea.

Christianity finds a fulcrum in Asia

By Spengler

Ten thousand Chinese become Christians each day, according to a stunning report by the National Catholic Reporter's veteran correspondent John Allen, and 200 million Chinese may comprise the world's largest concentration of Christians by mid-century, and the largest missionary force in history. [1] If you read a single news article about China this year, make sure it is this one.

I suspect that even the most enthusiastic accounts err on the downside, and that Christianity will have become a Sino-centric religion two generations from now. China may be for the 21st century what Europe was during the 8th-11th centuries, and America has been during the past 200 years: the natural ground for mass evangelization. If this occurs, the world will change beyond our capacity to recognize it. Islam might defeat the western Europeans, simply by replacing their diminishing numbers with immigrants, but it will crumble beneath the challenge from the East.

China, devoured by hunger so many times in its history, now feels a spiritual hunger beneath the neon exterior of its suddenly great cities. Four hundred million Chinese on the prosperous coast have moved from poverty to affluence in a single generation, and 10 million to 15 million new migrants come from the countryside each year, the greatest movement of people in history. Despite a government stance that hovers somewhere between discouragement and persecution, more than 100 million of them have embraced a faith that regards this life as mere preparation for the next world. Given the immense effort the Chinese have devoted to achieving a tolerable life in the present world, this may seem anomalous. On the contrary: it is the great migration of peoples that prepares the ground for Christianity, just as it did during the barbarian invasions of Europe during the Middle Ages.

Last month's murder of reverend Bae Hyung-kyu, the leader of the missionaries still held hostage by Taliban kidnappers in Afghanistan, drew world attention to the work of South Korean Christians, who make up nearly 30% of that nation's population and send more evangelists to the world than any country except the United States. This is only a first tremor of the earthquake to come, as Chinese Christians turn their attention outward. Years ago I speculated that if Mecca ever is razed, it will be by an African army marching north; now the greatest danger to Islam is the prospect of a Chinese army marching west.

People do not live in a spiritual vacuum; where a spiritual vacuum exists, as in western Europe and the former Soviet Empire, people simply die, or fail to breed. In the traditional world, people see themselves as part of nature, unchangeable and constant, and worship their surroundings, their ancestors and themselves. When war or economics tear people away from their roots in traditional life, what once appeared constant now is shown to be ephemeral. Christianity is the great liquidator of traditional society, calling individuals out of their tribes and nations to join the ekklesia, which transcends race and nation. In China, communism leveled traditional society, and erased the great Confucian idea of society as an extension of the loyalties and responsibility of families. Children informing on their parents during the Cultural Revolution put paid to that....
http://atimes.com/atimes/China/IH07Ad03.html

WinchesterF4n

08-20-2007, 12:45 PM

I am religious, Christian/Messianic Jewish type of thing. I'm mainly a Christian, but attend a Messianic Judiasm congregation on Fridays, although at the moment they've ticked me off, so...yeah.

But I'm also not the type to shove my religion down other people's throats, or if I do, I don't really mean to (I invite my friends to lock-ins and stuff, and we usually have a lesson before going into play-time). And I try not to judge others by their religion, but sometimes I can't help myself. But if I do, its because their particular religion just did something in my eyes was horrible, but then I get over it quickly.

I also have friends of different religions (Jewish, Muslim, Agnostic, etc.).

eponinethen

08-21-2007, 03:58 PM

Right. When I was younger I was such an atheist. Then I became more liberal and found religion sort of interesting. I was all "whatever makes you happy" etc. Now I'm back to being all super atheist. There have been a lot of recent debates in Sweden that made me more on an active atheist really. Won't bore you guys though, 'cause I tend to rant about it all day anyhow..

sreeja

02-27-2008, 12:15 AM

I am not religous.But i respect all religions and i believe in god.

edb

02-27-2008, 03:11 AM

I would think I fall into the category of not really being into religion. I've never believed in God, or the Bible and always hated RE whilst at school. Both of my parents weren't religious either and only every went to church for weddings, funerals or christenings.

I don't knock people for their religious beliefs as long as they don't shove it down my throat that is 'lol'

What I do believe is there is something out there, I don't know what it is exactly, but I do belive in fate/destiny/karma/reincarnation etc

If I had to pigeon-hole myself then I would probably say a nature based belief is probably closest. Most of our closest friends are Druids, Pagans, Wiccans or Spiritualists, so we all have very similar beliefs etc

To be quite honest I don't really think about it much and don't feel the need to have religion in my life, but I can see how others draw strength from it and if they feel their life is richer for it then for them that's a good thing. :)