Discussion of 3.16 "No Rest for the Wicked" - Aired 5/15/08 (CW-US)

[Velvet Sky]

It's 30 hours before Dean's (Jensen Ackles) deal with the crossroads demon is up and Dean, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Bobby (Jim Beaver) are searching for Lilith, who holds the contract. They discover her location and Sam summons Ruby (Katie Cassidy) for help despite Dean's protests. Ruby warns them they aren't ready to fight Lilith yet but they steal her knife and depart for New Harmony, Indiana.

In a battle to the death, Sam, Dean and Bobby take on Lilith and all her demons in a last ditch effort to save Dean's life.

Kim Manners directed the episode written by Eric Kripke.


Source: CW (http://www.cwtv.com/shows/supernatural/episodes)

Okay, watched it this morning, and wow, that was an evil cliff hanger if I ever saw one.

[teentitan]

Well I guess it's safe to say Lilith is not the Lilith some expected. She is (to me) a daughter of Lilith by the way she acted when she took over Ruby's body, she still acted like a little girl who was all of a sudden in a big girls body.
I'm only guessing here but when Lilith attacked Sam an instinctive reflex by Sam fended off her attack and it scared her so she left Ruby pronto. So the question is who is going to fill Sam in on his powers. I think it's going to be Ruby again (maybe not the same body but same demon) Lilith said she sent her far away not back to hell. Plus Ruby said she wanted Lilith out of the way...why? So to send her back to hell sorta kills that storyline for next season doesn't it?
Gotta admit it was a cool ending seeing Dean all strung out by meat hooks and chains. Mrs. TT said if Dean is hooked up then he is not dead. His body is dead but it's his soul that is hooked up right?
Only got four words now "Is it September yet?"

[Velvet Sky]

That was a curious thing, the kind of 'child like' innocence of Lilith, paired with the fact of her being this nasty demon. I'm definitely curious to know more about her though. And definitely, 'Is it September yet?' *L* Cliff hangers always drive me crazy, yet I oddly love them too. *L* Perhaps because so many shows I love did them nearly every season. From Star Treks TNG & DS9, to X-Files, to Buffy and Angel. All of which were quite good at the 'Oh my god' kind of cliff hangers, so I've gotten used to them in a way, and enjoy the depth of stories that can come with them. But they are a little hellish to wait for the resolutions. *L* In this case, very hellish. *L* Poor Dean.

[goldenboy]

Lilith was a tribute to that old Twilight Zone ep, right? The one with the omnipotent kid, holding his family hostage...

Hell...looks like it was designed by the Wachowski bros or something :) It was cool though. I'm glad they didn't wrap this up in a bow at the end, have Dean get out of his deal somehow.

[teentitan]

That's why I find it interesting what Mrs. TT said that Dean is not 'really' dead. And if you look at it from the series point of view they really can't kill his 'body' off seeing as how he is a star of the show. So is it possible that his body is in a coma and his soul is in pergatory? That huge bright flash had to do something and it might be tied into the whole Dean being in limbo thing? Thoughts anyone?
As for the Twilight Zone tribute I can't say but there was a discussion about Lilith being the mother of all demons so that's why I think Lilith is a daughter. It sorta makes sense if you look at it that the YED was looking for a human to lead his army to take over hell. So hell would have a child of their own defending the current leader. So it's sorta a brother vs. sister fight where the brother is human and the sister is a demonic bitch.
One other question...Dean started to see the Demons real face in the human hosts (laughed when he cringed at the sight of Ruby) do you think it was a good thing or a bad thing that they did not show the faces? I sorta liked it because I was wondering how the writers were going to address the fight/killing of a little girl so when Dean stopped Sam it was a nice suspense not to mention relief moment. Could you imagine the uproar if a child was knifed to death?

[Velvet Sky]

I think it's cool that we didn't see the real faces' that Dean saw. And it's funny cause in a Supernatural fic I did, and still kind of working on, I had a character who could do that, see the 'true face' of the demons. *L* There's got to be some kind of twist/loop hole for the Dean thing. I mean, season four it's already been mentioned about about intentions to focus on the guys as brothers and the family and some of those 'burning questions'. So I have to figure there's a 'twist'. And that's a cool theory on Lilith, and would seem to make sense. It'll be cool if that's what it is. :)

[teentitan]

I watched the finale again and noticed that Ruby said Sam has the ability to drop a 'bomb' and wipe Lilith out. So when Lilith went after Sam as the hellhound was ripping Dean apart and the bright flash went off I think Sam took away Lilith's powers (temporarily), killed the hellhound hence leaving Dean in limbo or pergatory because the hellhound did not pull Dean all the way to hell. And seeing as how Ruby was sent far away not back to hell by Lilith she might still be in the mix to help Sam get Dean back/out of pergatory.
Also does anyone think Bobby helped Ruby get out of the demon trap? During the show where Bobby was trying to fix the colt Ruby showed up and helped him. She is not the kind of demon to do a favour without getting something in return. So I was waiting all year for an explanation about Ruby helping Bobby fix the colt but nothing was ever said so that got me thinking because Ruby is a strong demon but not that strong to get out of a demon holding circle.

[prydain]

This was by far the best finale the show has had. Season one's cliffhanger was lame and the episode as a whole was just alright, season two's two-part finale had a great set-up and premise but was pretty much ruined by the AWFUL guest stars and bad acting from everyone except Jensen (even he wasn't on top), but this episode was well-acted, it was exciting, and the final ten minutes or so were just really, really great...Lilith/Ruby, some of the things we learned, Dean being ripped to shreds, the final shot...

Anyhoo teentitan, interesting theories, although I honestly think you MAY be giving the writers too much credit, I'm not sure they think things out like that. Plus Eric mentioned Dean returning from Hell next season, not limbo, so I think that's just supposed to be hell...they've stated that they couldn't afford to do the hell that they REALLY wanted to do.

Overall, season three has been excellent. I'm not sure if there's even one episode I've disliked. Overall season one was better, but there were episodes I didn't like. The show's also changed a lot, but considering that, I'm very happy with the past year. Interestingly enough season three is the LEAST liked season among the general fanbase.

Can't wait for next season.

[teentitan]

So do you think the bright light bomb Sam did might be the explanation/reason the writers use to get Dean back from hell? And I'm with you Pry this was the best freakn' season and I just hope the writers didn't set the bar too high for season 4. And I would have no problem with Ruby coming back either. Bella was interesting but she might make an appearence because we never really got an answer on where the damn the colt is!

[prydain]

I'm not exactly sure how they're getting Dean back hell. In interviews Kripke said something like "...when Dean crawls out of hell he's different" or whatever but I don't know if HOW he crawls out of hell. Next season the main mystery will be what happened to Dean, how he's changed, etc., and Kripke also said time moves differently in Hell so after three months when Dean comes back, it could have been a decade for him.

Also it looks like they'll be doing a lot with Sam becoming the Antichrist storyline, based on the finale, and I'm sure Lilith will be around quite a bit. Hopefully Ruby will come back, and possess the same body. Or if not, an even hotter body. :)

[Velvet Sky]

I think Buffy had that whole notion of time being different in hell too, didn't it? I seem to recall Angel saying something about that. Anyway, I'm looking forward to next season, this one was really good. I enjoyed every episode too. And if that was hell Dean was in, I actually like it. I think it certainly looked like a dark and miserable place to be. I don't think it has to be all fire and brimstone to be an effective hell. *L* I definitely hope to be seeing Lilith and Ruby back next season. And I'm very curious to see how Dean gets out of hell, and what is happening with Sam.

[prydain]

I don't think Kripke wanted a "fire and brimstone" hell, really, but he wanted it to be very gothic and stuff, I think, and he mentioned a couple of painters to give you an idea of what he meant but I don't recall what he said. But I'm guessing what we saw was only one portion of hell and it probably looks different in other places so we can just use our imaginations. ;)

[Velvet Sky]

yeah, well, I thought it was pretty cool, definitely a dark and unhappy place...

[Karma]

Wow, what a cliff hanger!! Sam's power looks amazing!! Just bam and Lily's eyes were no longer her demon white. I can't actually believe they ''killed'' Dean. I know that we saw that he wasn't actually dead but I kept thinking that he was going to get out of it some how.

i hope for next season, however they get him back that he keeps that ability to see the demons. It would even him out a little with Sam!

[N4H]

I wanna make sure of something, because I may not understand the mythology of Supernatural correctly. Once a demon does that black smoke leaving the human host thing it's gone forever from this reality, right? So Lillith is gone. We'll never see her again. Is that correct? Unless, of course, Dean meets her again in his Hell, or purgatory, or wherever he is.

[prydain]

No, the black smoke IS the spirits, even when they leave their host at will it still looks like that. And I think when they're exorcised they're sent to Hell but I don't think it's impossible for them to return. Remember the demon that possessed Meg in season one? She returned in season two's "Born Under a Bad Sign" looking for revenge for being sent to Hell.

And...Lillith will definitely be back this season. She fled Ruby's body so Sam couldn't hurt her, she's still in our dimension. And according to Kripke Lucifer is the only demon more powerful than she, so I'm fairly certain Lillith is the main villain next season.

[Karma]

I got the feeling that she left willingly. There was no ritual or pentegram done to send her back to hell. So I assumed that she just left Ruby's body to find another host. like she left the child to enter Ruby.

[Mr Pointy]

Lilith was a tribute to that old Twilight Zone ep, right? The one with the omnipotent kid, holding his family hostage...
That's exactly what I said to Mrs P when we watched this ep on Sunday and it really bugged me that I couldn't remember the name of the story and then I forgot all about it (old age dontcha know :)) until I read this thread...so now I've looked it up - It was called 'It's a Good Life' and it was based on a superb short story written by Jerome Bixby and brilliantly parodied by the Simpsons in their 'Treehouse of Horror II' ep.
It's a Good Life (The Twilight Zone) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life_%28The_Twilight_Zone%29)

Hell...looks like it was designed by the Wachowski bros or something :) It was cool though. I'm glad they didn't wrap this up in a bow at the end, have Dean get out of his deal somehow.

I thought that Supernatural's Hell owed a big debt to Clive Barker's Hellraiser universe...then again, that may just be the chains and hooks motif :)

I thought it was an excellent finale episode btw and I'm looking forward to season 4.