24 (Spoilers for UK fans)

[goldenboy]

This is the correct forum, yes? Not really sci-fi, though some of the CTU tech seems pretty fantastical.

Who's gonna watch the premiere tonight? I got hooked with the second season. It's often ridiculous, but tons of fun, I think. I read it's gonna be a smaller-scale crisis for Jack&Co this season...

[prydain]

Yeah, the off-topic is best for this, I guess.

I have never actually watched more than one random episode. I don't know why. I love Alias, and most Alias fans seem to be fond of 24. But the show seems extremely far-fetched - all that stuff happening in a 24-hour period in that way? I don't think so. And how is everything wrapped up within that 24 hours anyhow?

Anyway, so many people keep bugging me about it I guess I'll force myself to watch the first season soon.

[goldenboy]

They're trying to lure in as many folks as possible by running two hours tonight, two tomorrow...

It really is fun—very well-shot action scenes—gritty, by TV standards. And I never liked Kiefer Sutherland, but he's actually good as a superhero type. And Chloe, I love Chloe. She's great for comic relief.

[prydain]

Do you think I'd be able to watch it tonight without getting extremely confused? Maybe I'll try it if you think I could follow it.

[teentitan]

Jack is back baby!! Sure the stories are far fetched and the guy never takes a bathroom break. When it comes to being tortured he's like Wil E Coyote always bounces back after he falls off the cliff. All you have to do is suspend the link to reality sit back and enjoy the action, intrigue and cool fight scenes. And this season if it's your first is ok. The seasons are never linked, like it's just one continuous story.

[teentitan]

Holy s**t! In the first 37 minutes an ex president gets assassinated, one CTU dead (sad) one critically wounded (he will be a key piece of info soon). Jack assaults a pilot, kidnaps a minor and steals a helicopter. Oh yeah the anger in Jack is building up and when he blows it will be fun, fun and fun.
I think it's Chechin rebels and I felt Walt the presidential aid was a mole. Any thoughts about the show?

[Mr Pointy]

Holy s**t! In the first 37 minutes an ex president gets assassinated, one CTU dead (sad) one critically wounded (he will be a key piece of info soon). Jack assaults a pilot, kidnaps a minor and steals a helicopter. Oh yeah the anger in Jack is building up and when he blows it will be fun, fun and fun.
I think it's Chechin rebels and I felt Walt the presidential aid was a mole. Any thoughts about the show?
A plea on behalf of UK 24 fans...we have to wait a couple of weeks until the new season starts...can you be careful with the spoilers please guys? I know it doesn't count as a spoiler if the ep has aired in the US but if a mod could put a spoiler warning in the thread title it would be appreciated...thanks :)

[goldenboy]

Apologies, Mr. Pointy, should have have labled it a spoiler thread just in case. Maybe a moderator can retrofit spoilerbars into the offending posts?

[goldenboy]

I think it's Chechin rebels and I felt Walt the presidential aid was a mole. Any thoughts about the show?

I was impressed. The writers and FOX are smart in the way they're presenting all this. They have tons of dramatic action right off the bat, and lump four eps together at the beginning to draw all the skeptics in for the new season. And Chloe works on all the backstory exposition about Jack—talking to that kid...good idea.

Jean Smart is good as the lunatic wife of the president. This should be fun. Your theory about the baddies sounds right...but it's always even more complicated than you think it's gonna be, heh.

[teentitan]

Did you get a "vibe" off the guy Chloe woke up/ works with? For a guy who hit heavy on her in the morning he sure did not care she was late getting into CTU.
Glad to see paranoid Edgar is back! 18 months later and the guy is still wound tight.
When I was watching the first hour and realized the baddie is going after the people who know Jacks alive I got a small shiver...oh no Kim Bauer is going to be kidnap bait again. God I hope not!

[goldenboy]

I think I read that Kim's going to be back, for a few eps anyway.

Maybe Chloe's boytoy is a mole?! There's always a mole, every season, lol..Maybe Chloe talks in her sleep, heh...

[goldenboy]

I think it's Chechin rebels and I felt Walt the presidential aid was a mole. Any thoughts about the show?

Alright, sorry for the spoiler, multiple thread confusion, idiocy on my part. Anyways...it's clear now that that Walt dude is a traitorous weasel, and the First Lady isn't quite the wacko she appeared to be...

I can't tell if I liked Sean Astin's character or not. Seems like you're supposed to despise him at first, then he apparently saves the day. He's still so baby-faced, it's hard to buy him in that role—but I guess that's the point.

[Vilandra]

Okay so I did merge the two 24 threads - but if the UK people would like a spoiler-free one for themselves feel free to start another. Just mark it as such and post what episode you guys are up to so that US people can know to mark spoilers for episodes after that point. :)

[Mr Pointy]

Okay so I did merge the two 24 threads - but if the UK people would like a spoiler-free one for themselves feel free to start another. Just mark it as such and post what episode you guys are up to so that US people can know to mark spoilers for episodes after that point. :)
Thanks for that - it doesn't start showing here for a couple of weeks but I'm sure one of us will be quick to post as soon as it does...

[teentitan]

I think Walt outed himself by knocking out the First Lady. When she wakes up her assistant will figure out who did it. So either she outs him or she has a bad "accident".
As for Astin's character. I think he's there to check out the "validity" if Jack really is still a good guy. I think Astin is working for the yet to be seen Peter Weller character (the man who recruited Jack into CTU). Astin deliberately irritated Bill and the CTU staff with the call me Mr. in front of the subordinates and I need your office so that everyone would just give him the info without being suspicious as to why he wants that info. When you walk in and act like an a**hole doesn't everyone just give you what you want to get rid of you? I'm looking forward to see how this character develops into the plot line.
And I love this season because we are 4 hours into the day and there is still no clear answer of who the big bad guy is and what is the motivation. I think the terrorist pact was a decoy for the big bad.

[goldenboy]

That's an interesting theory about the Astin character...seems credible.

I wonder if this season could possibly involve the Chinese again in some way. They obviously wanted a living, breathing Jack Bauer last year, after the incident at the embassy...

[teentitan]

Need to know who the big bad is this year. If the Chinese can twist the plot I'm sure they will use it but I got that nagging feeling that this is something completely different this year. Don't want to throw it out there...yet.

[prydain]

I just watched the pilot and I will be finishing the rest of season one. :)

[goldenboy]

Coolness Pry. I bet you'll get into it.

I'm kinda surprised how fast events are playing out. The second mole, at CTU, is already outted! Chloe's boytoy—you just knew something was up. That Walt bastard! He. Must. Die. Wonder if this is gonna pace itself more like last season, a series of escalating mini-events...

[teentitan]

I thought it was going to be the First Ladies aid to out Walt and Chloe's boytoy really isn't a mole he thought he was hired by the Whitehouse to investigate a corrupt CTU, still haven't totally bought that story.
I think the events are playing fast because I think there is a big twist about "who" is sending the nerve gas to Moscow and this is going to require a large chunk of the day. I know I said Chechin rebels or something like that but now I'm not to sure. There is something nagging me from a promo clip. Jack having a mullet. I got a theory as to who is behind all this but don't want to say anything yet.

[goldenboy]

I thought it was going to be the First Ladies aid to out Walt and Chloe's boytoy really isn't a mole he thought he was hired by the Whitehouse to investigate a corrupt CTU, still haven't totally bought that story.
I think the events are playing fast because I think there is a big twist about "who" is sending the nerve gas to Moscow and this is going to require a large chunk of the day. I know I said Chechin rebels or something like that but now I'm not to sure. There is something nagging me from a promo clip. Jack having a mullet. I got a theory as to who is behind all this but don't want to say anything yet.


Right, I get that about the Spenser dude, poor schmuck. He's just a tool, in every sense, lol.

Just who is that a-hole giving orders to Walt, via the headset? He seems to be the puppet master, or one of them...

Jack as mullet-man, I don't know. Maybe he's infiltrating the Klan? lol

[teentitan]

Not the Klan but you are close. They were used last year. Mountain Men.
And that is the mystery...who is the a-hole on the headset and who is pulling his strings?

[goldenboy]

It's interesing how this show sort of repeats patterns, plot devices. Now, once again, there's an ambitious First Lady, competing for the attention of the president...a power, influence conflict with his staff (like President Palmer and Sherry).

And also, there's always some kind of familial, domestic crisis that affects someone at CTU: Michelle Dessler's crazy brother Danny, Chloe looking after Chase's baby at the office, Erin Driscoll's schizophrenic daughter, and now Lynn McGill's drug addict sister...all these domestic problems messing up the works...

Walt Cummings' elaborate plot with the nerve gas was hard to swallow, I think. What a loon he was to think it would actually work out....

[teentitan]

The family crisis theme is a constant in this series. I'm just glad the writers do not make it a Jack family crisis everytime, that got tedious in the first two years.
About the druggie sister was that his pass to CTU that was stolen?
So did Walt have help in hanging himself? I think it was Mike who did it so the 1st lady can be controlled. Why else would he insist that the President see Walt? The 1st lady is a time bomb waiting to go off but I'm just wondering the impact it is going to have for the story, very intriguing.

[goldenboy]

The family crisis theme is a constant in this series. I'm just glad the writers do not make it a Jack family crisis everytime, that got tedious in the first two years.
About the druggie sister was that his pass to CTU that was stolen?
So did Walt have help in hanging himself? I think it was Mike who did it so the 1st lady can be controlled. Why else would he insist that the President see Walt? The 1st lady is a time bomb waiting to go off but I'm just wondering the impact it is going to have for the story, very intriguing.

Yeah, I suspected that Walt had been assisted in offing himself.

He was essentially under arrest. He would have been under heavy guard, one assumes. If it wasn't "assisted suicide", did he somehow escape custody, wander into a lobby and hang himself from a ceiling fan, or whatever? That seems incredible to me somehow.

It's hard for me to imagine Mike doing it, but maybe so. He did basically betray Palmer at one point. He's very cautious, cynical at times. He'd be tempted to kill Walt to protect the office of the President. Eliminate any evidence of perceived Presidential incompetence. And yeah, he sees the First Lady as a dangerous influence.

Lynn McGill's pass: I assumed it was just his CTU building clearance, giving him level 5 clearance or whatever...at first I assumed McGill's sis and that other scumbag don't know what they actually have now. But alternatively, was McGill's sister just a patsy? Someone wanted McGill's pass and they used his sis to get at him? I dunno...

[teentitan]

I think you are right, McGill's sister was a patsy. I can't see McGill being controlled by someone threatening his sis because he was pretty cold with her and he seemed fed up with her antics.
I got a hunch it has something to do with the yet introduced Peter Weller character...big hmmmmmm maybe?

[goldenboy]

Hmm...OK, now I'm supposing McGill's sis and the scumbag are both just idiots. And scumbag just wants to add blackmail to his rap sheet...I dunno...maybe he does hook up with the Weller character at some point.

I guess the baddies are supposed to be modeled on Chechens, but..they keep using obviously British actors for the lead bad guys, lol (not that that's anything new with American entertainment).

[teentitan]

So who's the DOD mole that gave the patriot the chip??
Here's a puzzler...who's the bigger spineless, neurotic idiot; McGill or the President? God the only one with balls in the presidents administration is the looney first lady.
I'm really curious who is going to get McGill's keycard?
This season so far is the best one! Want to gas Russian oppressors, no now we are going to gas Americans, no you made a bad decision so you die and now we are going to gas the Russian oppressors. Oh and I want to kill the Russian president on American soil.
The American patriots want to secure oil, the Russian terrorists want to take out Moscow and Jack has to figure out who is more dangerous without the help of CTU? He is going to need therapy after this day is over, lol.

[goldenboy]

I'd say the Prez is king of the idiots. You can tell they were modeling him on Nixon, lol. He's basically good-hearted, but ultimately weak and spineless. He's the Anti-Palmer. The First Lady is filling the idealistic Palmer role now. McGill's just a by-the-book player, in over his head—with no good options.

Defense Secretary Heller's supposed to make an appearance, I thought. How is he connected to all this?

[teentitan]

The chip Jack got from the patriot was DOD password protected so that means there is another patriot in Logan's administration. I don't think it's the Defense sec or Audrey.
When Chloe got Audrey's password a bunch of companies that helped produce the nerve gas came up. Jack recognized one company and asked for a name (can't remember name) so I think this guy might be the patriot that is the inside man in the DOD.

[N4H]

Are you sure it's a guy? Me, I've been suspicious of the first lady's dresser woman since she first appeared on screen.

[teentitan]

Nah she's too mousy besides an aide would not have access to DOD passwords. But I gotta agree with you on one thing she is suspicious.

[goldenboy]

Edgar! Noooooo! Poor Chloe...she actually started to emote, just a little.

This was all fun and exciting and stuff, but can it really be that easy to walk into CTU? All you gotta do is somehow tweak an ID with space-age face-morphing technology and swipe a key card at a front desk, lol. Wouldn't they have X-rayed the dude's bag? Did they? I can't recall. Anyways...the lockdown was pretty cool.

[goldenboy]

Did anyone notice that Laura Palmer's dad Leland is the vice president? A lot of familiar faces this season...

[teentitan]

That is why that VP is registering high on the suspicious meter!!!! And Mike is starting to act a little jumpy too.
Who the hell is the psychiatrist that has that cult like grip on Kim? I got a funny feeling that the shrink is somehow connected to Kim to keep an eye on her. I think he works for Peter Wellers character. Weller was pretty concerned about Kim when Jack was on the phone with Audrie. The story sure is kicking it up a notch. I can only imagine how high Fox is going to ramp it up when they have Prison Break as the lead in show on the 20th.
Wow forgot one big thing. I think the VP is the DOD mole that gave up the info chip to the Patriots. It would explain why he wants to declare martial law. He's trying to minimize his screwup by clearing the streets therefore lowering the death statistics. I got suspicious of him when he slapped Mike down about talking to his people to explain the death statistics.

[goldenboy]

Well that's definitely a credible theory about the VP (in 24-land anyway, lol).

As far as Kim's shrink...I get the feeling Jack's goin' medieval on C. Thomas Howell's ass pretty soon. He didn't seem to appreciate C. Tom's control freak qualities. And do ya think Tony's gonna go berserk and off the Weller character? He kept asking about the chain of responsibilty, who was behind Michelle's death...

[N4H]

Are you starting to get the feeling there's more to this season than a few nerve gas cannisters. What's-his-name the guy their busy torturing right now, he seems to think there's some kind of gigantic conspiracy somewhere, too big for even Jack to know about.

Question: What happened to the Chinese. What? they just forgot about Jack killing folk in their embassy.

That Peter Weller guy isn't scary enough for me. He pales next to last season's villain. That Chinese agent was spooky. They should bring him back.

On the key card. Suppose you're a terrorist. You know how to get a key card by getting a junky to jump a CTU guy. But he was just the same day was appointed to CTU and no-one even knew it was going to happen? Huh? Someone had to set it up, but didn't the Sean Astin character say the President appointed him. Even if it was the President's aide, he's already slipped two people into CTU, why would he risk blowing his cover by getting a junky involved, and how could they possibly know Sean Astin was going to be in lock-up when it all went down, thus unable to stop the planting of the cannister? Wouldn't there be an easier way for a President's aide to get a CTU key card. And how would the terrorists have even known they wanted to plant the cannister at the time they were setting the junky thing up?

[goldenboy]

Everything about the key card storyline seems bizarre. Is the VP somehow responsible for the odd, convoluted key card scenario? Or it's just completely freakish blind luck, opportunism for the terrorists? I don't get it!

What could be so critically important for the Weller character at this point? He's toast. He's out of the game. But he's not bargaining with Jack. The cannisters being used on US soil seems to be an accident of fate...I dunno.

His motive wasn't some form of extortion, greed, doesn't seem like. Is he motivated purely by his ideas about patriotism? He feels he's protecting the country, the president somehow? Some gigantic military-industrial complex horror show that the nation must never know about? lol.

I'm still waitin' on the Chinese. C'mon boys!

[N4H]

OK, theory time.

Did you ever see the pilot to the much too short Lone Gunmen series? It was great, and it was kind of prophetic. It involved flying a jet into the twin towers, and predated the actual incident.

With the Lone Gunmen though, it was actually a plot by a right wing conspiracy group of power brokers to blame the act on terrorists, thus creating a climate of panic in which they could declare war on oil rich nations, and put the American populace under their thumb by demanding fewer rights of privacy, and free speech, in order to control the imagined terrorists.

I think this same kind of conspiracy might be what's really happening behind the scenes in 24.

[blackdog]

I think this same kind of conspiracy might be what's really happening behind the scenes in 24.

Interesting comparison N4H. Lone Gunmen worked off the same government conspiracy riff that drove X-Files (and...to some extent...Millenium). I wouldn't be surprised if the writers of 24 drew at least a little inspiration from Chris Carter.

I've been looking back at selected episodes from past seasons to try to get a few clues to what is going on now. At least a few threads seem to be related to events from 2-3 years ago. Especially disquieting is the knowledge that Mia Kirshner is set to reprise her role as evil assassin girl. She was deeply involved in past schemes, and her return can't be a good thing.

[goldenboy]

thus creating a climate of panic in which they could declare war on oil rich nations, and put the American populace under their thumb by demanding fewer rights of privacy, and free speech, in order to control the imagined terrorists.

I think this same kind of conspiracy might be what's really happening behind the scenes in 24.

It's definitely in keeping with this season's theme. It echos Walt Cummings' behavior and stated motivation.

But if that's the case, was Walt just a patsy in an even more devious, treacherous neoconnish scenario? A plan he wasn't fully aware of? Is it competing neocon cabals with similar agendas?

Or, is it one cabal, just trying to salvage their agenda...they're desperate now, improvising to maintain their mission. Let the unintended disaster happen on US soil. Whatever it takes to create the pretext for invasion...

I can understand how an invasion could serve their agenda. But, planning a martial law senario from the get-go seems really out there. I dunno.

[blackdog]

It's definitely in keeping with this season's theme. It echos Walt Cummings' behavior and stated motivation.

But if that's the case, was Walt just a patsy in an even more devious, treacherous neoconnish scenario? A plan he wasn't fully aware of? Is it competing neocon cabals with similar agendas?

Or, is it one cabal, just trying to salvage their agenda...they're desperate now, improvising to maintain their mission. Let the unintended disaster happen on US soil. Whatever it takes to create the pretext for invasion...

I can understand how an invasion could serve their agenda. But, planning a martial law senario from the get-go seems really out there. I dunno.

If this season plays out the way I think it's going, we will see the culmination of several plots and conspiracies that have been in the works since Season 2 (and perhaps even Season 1). If this is true, it may be that the bad guys are getting very desperate. They've been working toward their goals for some time now, and they have been foiled at each turn. Keep this in mind if some of the things that happen appear inexplicable (even in 24 terms).

Of course, I'm probably completely wrong.....:rolleyes1

[N4H]

[I]
Interesting comparison N4H. Lone Gunmen worked off the same government conspiracy riff that drove X-Files (and...to some extent...Millenium). I wouldn't be surprised if the writers of 24 drew at least a little inspiration from Chris Carter.

Yeah especially since 24 producer Howard Gordon used to work on X Files.

[teentitan]

OK Goldenboy thanks for the Tony going off on Weller. I was watching and kept saying why is Tony awake now? Sometimes I swear I need a hammer to tap meself on the noggn' to wake up to the obvious.
All the theories I read are all great but as it was pointed out already the 5 year running theory/conspiracy is oil. America needs it and the endless conspiracies to get it are entertaining.
Oh and I don't think the Chinese are going to get into this. To them Jack is still dead and he hasn't really popped up on the radar for the Chinese to get a whiff of him...yet!
And the junkie getting the key card was a weak story arc but like the writers say "just give us a break will ya, it was 3am and there was no coffee and it sounded good". Plus we have to buy it remember the cougar scene with Kim in season 2?

[goldenboy]

And the junkie getting the key card was a weak story arc but like the writers say "just give us a break will ya, it was 3am and there was no coffee and it sounded good". Plus we have to buy it remember the cougar scene with Kim in season 2?

That's what this season is lacking I think. We definitely need more cougars chasing down CTU agents' relatives, lol.

[goldenboy]

Pretty much all I remember about Lone Gunmen was that it was amusing...and there was that gorgeous brunette assisting the nerds. Yowza.

Just realized on second viewing that that was JoBeth Williams as Christopher Henderson's (Weller's) wife! Didn't even recognize her. A lot of 80s film actors being rehabilitated by TV...

[teentitan]

Just realized on second viewing that that was JoBeth Williams as Christopher Henderson's (Weller's) wife! Didn't even recognize her. A lot of 80s film actors being rehabilitated by TV...

Rehabilitated or in need of a paycheck? One thing about time and actors who say they will not do tv eventually the bill collectors come a knockn. Just ask David Caruso.

[goldenboy]

Umm...what the hell just happened? Did we just witness the lamest of lame 80s action movie cliches? I think maybe, but is there an explanation? Weller's apparently on the edge of death, his nervous system virtually shut down. Suddenly, his eyes blink open like he's a cyborg or something. He pulls some jujitsu move on Tony and makes a break for it. Hmm.

So what happened there? Was the guy giving Weller the serum a mole or a doofus or something? I must have stepped out for a critical part...

[N4H]

That's my only complaint about this season, there just doesn't seem to be even the slightest whim to make anything like sense.

I mean who the Hell do they think they are Prison Break?

*

[blackdog]

RIP Tony Almeida

There won't be too many of the old CTU crowd left at this rate. Wonder what's in store for Chloe...

[goldenboy]

I'm not even sure I get the point of bringing Tony back this season, jeez. Other than to facilitate Weller's escape, which seemed idiotic ('less I missed something). I guess this could now put Jack into full-on psychotic vengence mode.

I wouldn't be bothered if C Thomas Howell had met an untimely end...he was annoying, lol.

[blackdog]

I'm not even sure I get the point of bringing Tony back this season...

They brought him back to kill him off (just like Michelle & Pres. Palmer).

Combined with the other events of this season, all of the deaths of prominent characters are enough to convince me that CTU is slowly being destroyed as an operational entity. This fits in pretty well with the idea that 24 will veer off on to a completely new track next year.

[teentitan]

Can't see it being veered off on a different track for next year, like the old saying goes "we can rebuild it".
I think the gas attack and death of Tony is being used as a catalyst to let Jack go completely unaccounted for. Remember the Homeland Security chick said anyone left at CTU is now just an asset for her. Well seeing as how Jack is not on the books it's psycho time! Especially now that Kim doesn't want anything to do with him. Lost his wife, identity and daughter to CTU yeah all I heard was a loud "snap" from Jack especially at the end of the show when he was holding Tony.
Oh and I think this Homeland security story is going to bring the Chinese back into the mix...just a thought.

[goldenboy]

So Jack's probably going rogue now. We'll get to see what that mullet was all about. He wouldn't care for that Homeland Security woman at all...and Heller's still showing up I assume....

It could be an interesting twist if CTU was the element that went away for next season, not Jack Bauer...dunno.

[blackdog]

Remember the Homeland Security chick said anyone left at CTU is now just an asset for her.

This is part of the reason I think CTU could be on the way out. With many (if not most) of the CTU-Los Angeles personnel dead, it's hard to see how it will survive a takeover by Homeland Security. Also, CTU no longer has a patron in the White House to protect them. They don't have very many friends in high places left.

...I think this Homeland security story is going to bring the Chinese back into the mix...

Could be. My money is on Mandy (aka: Evil Assassin Girl).

We still have half a season left to go. Lot's of things could happen yet. Jack is so ticked off right now he's liable to kill more people than the nerve gas.

[teentitan]

You know thinking back to epi 1 the looney 1st lady said that President Palmer had information about a problem with the current administration. We all thought the problem was Walt Cummins right? Well I think Palmer's info went deeper as in the VP is a Patriot who is scheming to secure oil for the USA.
Well as we know the plan to gas Russia by the Patriots backfired and now the Russians are going to gas LA. VP walks into the Presidents office slams Mike about his casualties numbers and wants to declare martial law, in other words he's covering his ass because the plan blewup.
Weller's character is afraid because he is in cahoots with the VP because Weller is the CTU agent Jack outed in season 1 and the Patriots recruited him to work for them and help with their master plan to secure oil for the USA.
EAG (evil assassin girl) is a mercanary who does wet work for anyone (Serbs, nuclear stealing Muslims etc) and I think the Russian has hired her to secure blueprints for some big government building so he can gas it.
I still believe the Homeland Security chick or the guy in the back seat is going to out Jack to the Chinese, probably out of revenge or something. Because even though the last epi was weak it did show that Jack don't give a damn anymore and he is about to go totally rogue. Kim telling him she wanted nothing to do with him hurt him bad so he's got nothing to loose.
Ofcourse like Dennis Miller says "I could be wrong..."

[teentitan]

Holy S**T! So just how many countries is Jack Bauer going to be #1 on their hit list? So maybe the Germans will sell out Jack to the Chinese?
Audrie!?!?! Come on who can honestly say they saw that name coming out of EAG's mouth?
I am still going with the VP as a patriot though. Who else sent the hit squad out to nail Wayne Palmer? Please do not let it be Aaron the secret service guy!
Man last weeks show was campy but this weeks was definitely WTF! material.
OMG and this President needs cliff notes to find Waldo! What a putz!!!

[N4H]

Seriously...Audrey! I wouldn't be more shocked if it was Chloe.

In retrospect though, should've seen it coming. Remember Season 1. Jack has bad luck with girlfriends.

I like having homeland security as bad guys. I don't like those guys in real life.

[goldenboy]

OK, that makes up for last week.

Audrey never, ever looked more shifty than in a quick shot of her in the preview for next week's ep, heh. The only other possibility is that she was framed I guess.

The VP definitely sent the hit squad out for Wayne. It can't be Aaron! There have to be some decent people left in this world...

I loved the way the German agent's little gizmo burst into flames, lol. It was right out of Get Smart or something.

[N4H]

Really? Were you thinking Get Smart? I was thinking Mission Impossible.

"As always this tape will self-destruct in 5 seconds." :)

*

[goldenboy]

Yeah, for sure Mission Impossible. I just have a better recollection of Get Smart reruns, heh.

[goldenboy]

OMG, the German agent was Desmond, from Lost. Whadya know.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0193738/

And Audrey's husband gets around a lot too. 24, Invasion, Threshold, Medium...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0289656/

[N4H]

I think I know why that self-destruct scene sent us both backwards into television history though. It was a cheesy little special effect, wasn't it?

On the next subject, I kind of like the way all these Genre actors get passed about from Genre project to Genre project. I love the way Star Gate does it where you have all the hot babes from Farscape, Andromeda, and Enterprise popping up from time to time on a single series. Genre is becoming almost like a little village isn't it?

[goldenboy]

A nice little actor profile...

Chloe, played by Mary Lynn Rajskub, is much more than a glorified computer nerd.

She's also petulant, snippy and a simmering sourpuss. An acquired taste she may be, but Chloe's very social gracelessness during three seasons of "24" has won her an unlikely viewer following.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/ap/20060321/114299016000.html

[goldenboy]

This feels right in my gut, I dunno...

Question: Please tell me Audrey is not a traitor on 24! I can't handle too many more surprises like that! *—*Nathan

Ausiello: I'm 90 percent certain Audrey is not a traitor. Her father, however, is another story.

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Ausiello/AskAusiello/

[teentitan]

Does anyone think that maybe the mousy First Ladies assistant is maybe "standing in" for Audrie? We have all had our suspicions about her. Plus it is feasible if the VP is a patriot.
Hey I may be reaching but another girlfriend of Jack's gone bad? If the writers can't come up with better story lines then maybe this should be the last season.

[goldenboy]

In the great tradition of TV nets constantly copying and recycling eachother's stuff...more chances being taken on serial dramas, experimental formats.

NBC's Kidnapped —already picked up for next season — is, like 24, a "ticking clock" serial thriller starring Timothy Hutton and Dana Delany as a wealthy Manhattan couple whose teenage son is abducted. In ABC's Twenty Questions, an intelligence analyst is drawn into a conspiracy when he witnesses the death of a Syrian diplomat, while the network's Sixty Minute Man has a suburban dad (JAG's Elliott) who loses his memory in another plot.

ABC comedy A Day in the Life spends an entire season on a single wedding day, as each episode captures the perspective of a participant.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2006-03-22-tv-pilots-big-stars_x.htm

[teentitan]

GRROOOAAANNNN! Well one positive about this re-cyclying is it took the other networks 5 years to copy 24's format.

[N4H]

Ausiello: I'm 90 percent certain Audrey is not a traitor. Her father, however, is another story.

Jeez, what a rat Audrey's father will be if he deflected suspicion from himself onto his daughter.

I've never thought much of Ausiello's opinion though, (he dissed the Inside) so I'm going to choose to disbelieve him, and hope he's wrong. I'm going to join Teen Titan, and continue to suspect the dresser-woman.

[teentitan]

Tried to give you some Karma N4H for backing me up on the First Ladies aid being suspicious. The board wouldn't let me give you much deserved Karma but they didn't say I couldn't post my appreciation.

[N4H]

Ok, so I'm lost here.

President Palmer's brother drives up to what looks to be the white-house compound, and he gets stopped at the gate, right? He has trouble getting through, because of course, security is so tight. He gets through into what must be one of the most highly protected areas on earth, and there's a van load of thugs, who start shooting at him with automatic weapons. They run him off the road, and start chasing him. No-one hears the shots or the car-crash, but a lone security guard decides to go out and wander around looking for him. He of course bumps into him right away by accident. The thugs however haven't been able to locate him until this exact moment, at which point they start firing off a few thousand rounds in the white-house compound, and still nobody comes to investigate what all the shooting is about.

Did I get that right? Because if I did, that's whack man.

And why did the terrorists want a police car so bad they killed 2 cops to get it. They didn't appear to need it. And don't cops generally report their location before they get out to stop a fight in an alley? Why would the terrorists risk that, when they didn't really need the police car in the first place, and it would be on every police radio in the city, the moment they stole it?

[goldenboy]

I thought that Weller-as-cyborg, escaping from CTU, was maybe just a writer's stumble, but...this season...lol.

Wayne had a fairly hi-tech rifle with him. Had he ambushed one of the baddies? Can't recall. He must have been extremely close to the compound at that point, for Aaron to stumble into him...weirdness. Cop car ambush is still more weirdness. I gotta go back and check the writers' credits for these eps.

And what was up with the newbie, Sexual Harassment Chick? When Bill Buchanan brushes her shoulder, lol. I guess she's picking up the comic relief slack from Chloe.

[teentitan]

No I think the newbie chick is just to show that there is a weirder chick then Chloe now in the show.
All points brought up are valid but with this show if you glance to your left or right while watching then you don't drive yourself nuts with the details that the writers overlook. Believe me these botched minor details have plagued this series since season 1.
Overall, minor details aside, last nights epi was good. Now that the nerve gas is out of the picture finding Weller's character and the last patriot in the White House is getting cranked up. And what is that German agent going to do?
The first lady's assistant is the mousy character I thought she was. In the preview it looks like she folded faster then a tissue when Palmer confronts her.

[goldenboy]

No I think the newbie chick is just to show that there is a weirder chick then Chloe now in the show.

I guess if she's a tech-head and she's replacing Edgar...the writers feel she must have a kooky edge or something. It was just funny cos her reaction seemed out of the blue, despite her apparent history with the Homeland Security a-hole. Maybe she'll be a freak, a loose cannon who mucks up the works at CTU somehow.

Overall, minor details aside, last nights epi was good. Now that the nerve gas is out of the picture finding Weller's character and the last patriot in the White House is getting cranked up. And what is that German agent going to do?

The nerve gas arc was fun...and i hope it gets even wilder...but not too aggressively anti-logical.

[teentitan]

I think the show is going to take a turn in a way where Jack's character goes completely medieval on people in his obsession to get Weller.
The Homeland security (HS) chick said that he is not a trusted agent because of Nina and Jack's reaction at first was as if he wanted to just clock her. Plus with HS now taking over CTU they will not think twice about hanging Jack out to dry to protect their collective arses.
They showed last night that HS has tunnel vision when confronted with a problem and it's pass the buck to let someone else make the decision or it's a group decision. Government has a tendancy to stay within their comfy box where they do not have to make a decision on their own.

[goldenboy]

And why did the terrorists want a police car so bad they killed 2 cops to get it. They didn't appear to need it.

I watched again. Bierko mentions that there is a curfew in effect in LA. He apparently figures there would be less chance that cops or national guard or whoever would pull them over if they have a police escort. Internal "24" logic...

[teentitan]

AND THE OSCAR FOR DECEPTION GOES TO PRESIDENT LOGAN!!!
OK I am so totally f'n shocked! Come on did anyone see that one coming??
I know they were going to crank it up after taking out the nerve gas but damn! This is by far the best year yet.
Does anyone have a frickn' idea about what is going to happen now?!?

[N4H]

Not a clue, and no I didn't see the evil President thing coming. I mean what could he want? He's already the flippin president.

And yeah this is my favourite season so far too, but I still keep seeing all these things that don't make sense to me. I have to have them explained. That's just the way my brain works.

This weeks "I don't get it" is from last week. OK so Jack burns up the nerve gas to neutralize it, right? But wasn't the whole evil plan to send the nerve gas through natural gas lines into people's homes? Don't people burn natural gas? Isn't that what it's for?

[goldenboy]

Well, I'm not about to call up my local gas and electric company to figure it out, but yeah...don't understand the pretend TV science there...

I think this season may hold the record for red herrings and decoys, lol.

[teentitan]

Yes natural gas burns in people's homes but remember the baddies had the head engineer to lower the pressure of the delivery of the gas. As long as the pressure was low enough it would not neutralize the gas. A lower pressure also means the nerve gas would not burn up either they would be of equal value, more or less, therefore everyone in the house would die.

Has anyone seen Mike lately in the show? And now that the Prez has been outed does that mean Aaron is going to get "early" retirement? And that German agent is still running around, hmmmmmm.
In last nights epi I thought Wayne Palmer was going to punk out and not pull the trigger! I actually yelled at the tv for him to pull the trigge,lol. But we got a new player now because he wanted the baddie to look him in the eye and Wayne's eyes went colder after he got his revenge.

[goldenboy]

Yes natural gas burns in people's homes but remember the baddies had the head engineer to lower the pressure of the delivery of the gas. As long as the pressure was low enough it would not neutralize the gas. A lower pressure also means the nerve gas would not burn up either they would be of equal value, more or less, therefore everyone in the house would die.

Has anyone seen Mike lately in the show? And now that the Prez has been outed does that mean Aaron is going to get "early" retirement? And that German agent is still running around, hmmmmmm.
In last nights epi I thought Wayne Palmer was going to punk out and not pull the trigger! I actually yelled at the tv for him to pull the trigge,lol. But we got a new player now because he wanted the baddie to look him in the eye and Wayne's eyes went colder after he got his revenge.

Ahh, yeah. Forgot about the pressure problem. Makes sense (as far as I can tell).

Feels like it's been a month since we've even seen Mike. Maybe he'll help save the day somehow.

Exactly what I was thinkin about Wayne too! He wanted to see the whites of the dude's eyes.

[goldenboy]

You know, this almost feels like a cheat (Logan as the puppet master). Did Logan gradually evolve from inexperienced, cowardly dunderhead (last season) to master manipulator?

Or, if he's been hiding his true nature all along...did he actually orchestrate his way into the presidency itself? As in was he aware of the plot to down Air Force One last season? Just feels weird...

[teentitan]

This is what I'm saying I am totally frickn' confused. I would love to speculate but man the writers are just letting it all hang out and putting it out there! I don't think they want the fans to watch a regular series this year and man I am loving it.

[N4H]

Yes natural gas burns in people's homes but remember the baddies had the head engineer to lower the pressure of the delivery of the gas. As long as the pressure was low enough it would not neutralize the gas. A lower pressure also means the nerve gas would not burn up either they would be of equal value, more or less, therefore everyone in the house would die.

Colour me dumb. I still don't get it.

OK this is the way I understand a natural gas furnace. When the external temperature in your house gets cold enough your thermostat sends an order to your furnace. A valve opens up, and natural gas is pumped into a combustion chamber. The gas is passed over a pilot flame and ignites. Even if that pilot flame malfunctions natural gas isn't supposed to get into the house is it?

I thought the chamber heats external air in another chamber, and that's what's pumped into the house - heated air. Also even if it was only nerve gas pumping into the chamber, wouldn't it still have to pass over the pilot flame? Also we're talking about a massive amount of natural gas, and a relatively small amount of nerve gas. No matter how much pressure, or where it's applied if the natural gas is mixed with the nerve gas at the plant, natural gas is going to be the dominant element and ignite in the combustion chamber of the home furnace.

Even if it's only nerve gas passing through the pipe, and that tiny amount (weren't we talking about 200,000 people = how many furnaces?) of nerve gas somehow passes over the pilot flame unaltered, wouldn't it be contained in the combustion chamber? I don't know. What am I missing?

[teentitan]

The temperature of a burning gas depends on the pressure it is delivered. If the pressure is low the temperature of the burning natural gas is lower. The baddies as we know had the pressure lowered. Toxic gases, like nerve gas, can survive a fire/heat if the temperature of the fire is low enough.
So in the furnace combustion chamber when the mixture of air and natural gas burning gets warm enough to turn on the blower motor to circulate the air thru the house and seeing as how the pressure of the gas was low enough to not burn off the nerve gas it would mix with the warmed air and circulate when the blower motor kicks on.
Seeing as how Jack blew up a natural gas distribution/holding plant the amount of natural gas burned would be a high enough temperature to burn off the toxic/nerve gas.
Hope that helps.

[N4H]

Yeah, I kind of get it. You're saying there's burning, but it's not hot enough to destroy the nerve gas. Assuming that's true, I still have a problem. When I look at the diagram posted here -

http://mn.centerpointenergy.com/for_your_home/energy_your_home/heating/furnace.asp

it doesn't look like the natural gas leaves the furnace to blow through the house. It looks like a radiator kind of thing heats external air, and that is what's vented into the house to heat it.

When I look here -

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:zT-XBqM-vakJ:www.questargas.com/brochures/59050.pdf+how+natural+gas+furnace+works&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=8&client=firefox-a

it tells me by-products of the burning process are expelled, but it seems to suggest they are sent outside the house.

2. Venting. Just as your furnace needs to inhale
during operation, it also needs to exhale. Your
furnace’s venting system provides a passage through
which combustion by-products can be “exhaled” from
your furnace and your house to the outside.

Sorry, but that whole natural gas/nerve gas thing didn't make sense to me, then you told me it did, now I've got to know. Again, what am I missing?

[teentitan]

Yes some of the nerve gas would be vented outside from the burn chamber but some would still be mixed in the chamber that heats up the air to be circulated into the house when the blower motor comes on. The burner for a natural gas stove is not enclosed (at least mine isn't) so the nerve gas would distribute in my house as soon as soon as the house thermostat signaled for the furnace to come on. One thing to remember as well different gases have different weights. When the pressure of the natural gas delivery was lowered that would make the weight property of the nerve gas heavier therefore expelling it thru the exhaust of the furnace would be more difficult then expelling the by-product of the burnt natural gas.
You also have to remember natural gas stoves. Because the pressure of natural gas was lowered the heat from the burning stove would not be hot enough to burn the nerve gas so as the stove burners operated the nerve gas would be going thru the house as well.
Because this was California I am assuming the baddies were depending on the stoves to deliver the nerve gas more then the furnaces.
The biggest thing to remember here is that the weight of the nerve gas was heavier then the natural gas. The pressure of the delivery of the natural gas was too low to produce enough heat to burn off the nerve gas. So as soon as the valve opened in the house for the furnace or stove the nerve gas would not be affected. Think gasoline on water, You can burn the gasoline off the water but not burn the water.

[N4H]

Oops, triplicate post.

[N4H]

Well, if you put a hundred parts gasoline to one part water in a bucket and lit it, how much would water would you find at the bottom of the bucket afterwards?

Nevertheless, I think I'm starting to get it. Although in order for this to have any possibillity of success, I think the nerve gas would actually have to be lighter than the natural gas. You send the mixture of the 2 gasses down a pipe at decreased pressure. Along the pipeline heavy goes to the bottom, light to the top. Eventually light gets pushed to the front, because it's lighter and therefore reacts with greater response to the pressure. It gets delivered in a pocket at people's homes.

Still a problem though...How long would that line of pipe have to be to reach all those homes? Miles and miles, right? You would need at least enough pressure to push it that far. Some mixing would have to happen, then once the two gases stop at the valves of the furnace, they both settle there, and are mixed again waiting for the valve to open. At that point wouldn't the amount of gas getting through be regulated by the home owner.

But OK, providing the nerve gas gets pushed along the hundred mile of pipe ahead of the natural gas in one solid pocket, and stops at the the homes in that pocket with no further mixing there, then everyone turns on their stoves at the exact moment, and the natual gas goes over the pilot flame without burning a tiny amount of nerve gas might, possibly, somehow escape into someone's home before the massive amount of natural gas behind it hit the combustion chamber.

[N4H]

And again oops...

[teentitan]

If you decrease the pressure of the natural gas that means you have decreased the volume of the natural gas. And the amount of heat generated by burning natural gas is the volume/pressure. So if the homeowners stove or furnace is burning a low volume/pressure not enough heat is generated to burn the nerve gas so the nerve gas will permeate into the house.

[N4H]

OK, you lost me again. Damn, just when I thought I was starting to get it. :popcorn:

The nerve gas was mixed with the natural gas at the plant, right. The pressure is what's required to move the natural gas/nerve gas mixture from the plant to people's homes, isn't it?

So in my mind the gas is still being pushed the miles, and miles it takes to get to it's destination, it's just getting there slower, and this time it has a comparatively tiny amount of nerve gas mixed with it.

If the pressure pushing that gas is coming from the plant, and pushing the gas all those miles, there's plenty of pressure to push the mixture an extra inch to the valve.

I just can't make this make sense for me. The only way this possibly works is if there is no natural gas in the pipe. If it's all nerve gas.

Oh wait a minute now I think I may have something. What if we're not talking about the pressure required to move the gas from plant to home's? What if we're talking about the pressure required to fill the feeding tank of gas being sent out? In that case perhaps theoretically you could have a tank of raw natural gas being sent down the line. That still doesn't 100% satisfy me, but I can live with that. I'm going to say that's what happened, and not sweat the details of something that almost makes sense. It still hasn't jumped into my top ten list of ways a terrorist might get me though. :)

[teentitan]

Can science and physics be a bitch or what?
Gases have different properties some are light and some are heavy. For example in WW1 mustard gas (google it you will be surprised) was a heavy gas and for days after a gas attack pockets of the gas would sit in trenches, ruts left by truck tires, holes created by bombs. It would take heavy winds to move the gas and it took miles and miles for the gas to "thin" out to the point where it was harmless if a human breathed it in.
So now lets look at the nerve gas. If the baddies released it in what you called the feeding tanks it would not move because the pressure of the natural gas would not allow it to move. But seeing as how the pressure in the feeding tank was lowered it made the nerve gas "lighter" then the natural gas so it could move independently from the natural gas.
So when the valve from the feeding tank was opened the gas and nerve gas in the whole system including the pipes would be moving at a lower pressure. So the nerve gas would move to all the houses.
Now take a candle and put it in a big glass box and control how much oxygen is fed into the box the flame on the candle would burn accordingly to the amount of oxygen. Lots of oxygen means a big hot burning flame less oxygen means a smaller cooler burning flame. So if the natural gas burns like the candle in the box, lots of natural gas means a hot flame a small amount of natural gas means a cooler flame. We know the amount of natural gas was a small amount so the nerve gas would be lighter so it would move thru the pipes etc. So seeing as how the natural gas was delivered in a small amount it still burned but not hot enough to burn off the nerve gas so the nerve gas goes into the homes and kills the people.
I hope this helps you understand now.

[goldenboy]

Well...personally, I would've preferred an instructional film strip. But this has been quite educational. Thanks Titan! Heh.

I can imagine this scenario with a gas stove. I've got gas burners, and when you turn the knob, the gas seems to flow for at least a couple of seconds before the actual flame flickers—if I'm understanding correctly. Seems like some gas would escape the flame completely...

[N4H]

We know the amount of natural gas was a small amount so the nerve gas would be lighter so it would move thru the pipes etc. So seeing as how the natural gas was delivered in a small amount it still burned but not hot enough to burn off the nerve gas so the nerve gas goes into the homes and kills the people.
I hope this helps you understand now.

Actually, no, it doesn't...in fact now you've got me confused again, just when I had it comfortable in my head. First of all, how do we know "the amount of natural gas was a small amount"? Once you put natural gas into the equation as a part of the mixture flowing from the plant to people's homes you've got a problem. You've got a long distance of pipe, and a comparatively tiny amount of nerve gas.

There are vats and vats of natural gas at the plant. If natural gas is going down the pipeline with nerve gas you've got a possible mixture of about a million to one - natural gas to nerve gas. It's going to mix, either in the line or at the valve entering the furnace. The only way this possibly works is if (as I said) it's only nerve gas getting into the tank at the plant, and therefore going down the line, and I'm not sure that makes sense either, because in that case you'd be talking about compressed air, and a mixture of oxygen.

[teentitan]

The baddies had the pressure of the natural gas reduced at the plant meaning the pressure for distribution throughout the system of miles of pipes was reduced as well.
Reducing the pressure means reducing the volume or amount of natural gas. So seeing as how the baddies reduced the pressure there was a small amount of natural gas in the pipes.
As for the nerve gas yes it mixes with the natural gas but the nerve gas is so potent even diluted down to a single atom it is still lethal to humans. Google chemical weapons and pick a nerve gas. It will explain how lethal they are even as they are diluted in water, air, etc. Men who invent this stuff are warped little puppies because they just don't create it they think of ways to deploy it. Believe me after sitting thru biochemical warfare lectures you learn quick just how potent and indestructable these chemicals are and how easy they can be deployed to kill.

[N4H]

OK, so I took your advice and did a little research, because to be honest I stopped worrying about Jack Bauer. Now I'm wondering about me and whether terrorists could actually get at me through my natural gas. :D

Apparently there are a bunch of ways to destroy nerve gas, but the old fashioned way is incineration. People who live around where they do it though aren't happy, because...

“Once you put it in the furnace it’s out of your control,” Williams said. “You’ve got to hope it all goes right.”

You're right it has to be real hot.

Two were methods of incineration, whereby the agent would be burned in a furnace at more than 1,000 degrees.

http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Army-Incineration-VX-Sarin-GB29mar02.htm

I'll post some other stuff real fast, cause I gotta go -

“Even a small accident could be catastrophic,” said Mike Burney, emergency management director for surrounding Calhoun County. While mustard gas is not a lethal agent, even minute doses of sarin and VX are. Detecting the latter agents is hard because they are odorless and colorless.

Beyond a few technical quibbles, such as the fact that U.S. nerve agents are not stored in pressurized canisters with cipher locks but rather in rockets, bombs and artillery shells, the show seems all too plausible. Osama bin Laden has openly declared Al Qaeda's intention to obtain weapons of mass destruction, of which chemical agents would be the easiest to acquire and use.

http://www.jasonrodriguez.com/2006_02_01_archive.html

I forgot to complain about 24 on Tuesday, I think I want to make it a weekly feature where I point to a huge inaccuracy in 24 every week based entirely on the fact that my day job is a non-Hollywood, non-real time version of what CTU does on screen. For instance, they established this “sentox” gas as being a persistent nerve gas. Well, persistent nerve gases (like VX) cause more damage when absorbed through your skin than when breathed in. So, when Jack runs up to that canister of “sentox” with a gas mask on and a short sleeve shirt – yeah – he’d be dead within two minutes.

Even if “sentox” wasn’t persistent – even if was more like sarin with the low vapor pressure and all – your skin still absorbs that shit and a high concentration of it will kill you wicked ****ing fast, gas mask or not...

Whatever, I shouldn’t complain about the realism of 24. In a world were our Vice President is shooting people in the face my perception of “plausible” needs to seriously be reconsidered.

http://www.jasonrodriguez.com/2006_02_01_archive.html

Damn I lost one where they were talking about how it landed as an oily residue. I was concluding it would have to be heavier than the natural gas therefore moving behind it down the pipe and requiring greater pressure to move. I wonder how much of it would make it all the way down the pipe?

Anyways I think I get what they're suggesting now. The nerve gas comes behind the natural gas pushing it up the pipe. Upon arrival at the furnace, it's all nerve gas. It's not as flammable as natural gas so whether the furnace is on or not, all it needs is the pilot flame. It won't ignite so it comes out as pure gas. That's my new theory.

Edit:

I wasn't clear, but what I meant was it chokes out the pilot light, effectively turning the furnace part off, even it it was on.

[teentitan]

Glad you did some research and you are getting it.
There is a lot of things over the years on 24 which are really "suspect". I've always watched this show looking slightly to left or right when they do something I know is wrong. But when I look at it as entertainment hey what a rush!

[N4H]

Absolutely, and if you happen to one of us weirdos who enjoy picking stuff apart, what a double rush. :dracula:

[blackdog]

I go away for a few days and look what happens:

(1) President Numbskull is really an eveil genius...maybe. This actually makes a perverse kind of sense. The bad guys have taken out two presidents over the last 5 years. Now they finally have their guy running the show. I wonder if the Vice President will turn out to be a hero...

(2) I've learned more about nerve gas than I ever thought I would. Still don't understand it too well, but the discussion here has been fascinating.

(3) Eight episodes to go and still no EAG. She is supposed to appear in six shows, so I figure our favorite demon bitch will be a very prominent character for the rest of the season.

Absolutely, and if you happen to one of us weirdos who enjoy picking stuff apart, what a double rush.

LOL...yeah...it is great fun... Karma points going out to N4H, Teentitan, & Goldenboy...thanks for adding to my enjoyment of the show this year.

[teentitan]

I thought EAG was already in 3 shows? Isn't she the one who got the blueprints to the gas distribution plants and was shagging the German agent? And the 3rd show didn't she give up Weller's character?

[goldenboy]

No, EAG is Mandy...right? Isn't that who you guys have been talkin about? The information broker this season is Collette Stenger (played by Stana Katic) Both gorgeous of course. Most evil TV villainesses are, heh.

[blackdog]

No, EAG is Mandy...right? Isn't that who you guys have been talkin about? The information broker this season is Collette Stenger (played by Stana Katic) Both gorgeous of course. Most evil TV villainesses are, heh.

Correct. EAG is portrayed by Mia Kirshner. You can find links & other info about Mia at http://www.famousbabes.com/miaK/mia.htm (Warning: Some Adult Content)

Collette Stenger was a new character this season. EAG has been causing trouble since the show began.

[teentitan]

My bad...thanks for clearing that up but now my conspiracy theory mind is twirling.
Can anyone answer this question? Who was the dude at the end of season 2 that sanctioned told EAG to poison Palmer with the handshake? I know he has something to do with oil (4 year constant theme).

[blackdog]

My bad...thanks for clearing that up but now my conspiracy theory mind is twirling.
Can anyone answer this question? Who was the dude at the end of season 2 that sanctioned told EAG to poison Palmer with the handshake? I know he has something to do with oil (4 year constant theme).

I don't think that particular bad guy has ever been identified, and this is one of the reasons that I think 24 is dealing with several related plots and conspiracies this season. Oil is part of it; control and manipulation of the US government is another part. After this season is over, I may go back and watch all of 24 from the beginning, just to see if I can pick up any more clues.

[goldenboy]

This is all I could find. This is the guy, right? "Max".

Peter Kingsley Group

* Tobin Bell — Peter Kingsley (Businessman; main villain of Season 2)
* Mia Kirshner — Mandy (Assassin from Season 1 returns)
* Nina Landey — Eve (Assistant to Peter Kingsley)
* Rick D. Wasserman — Alex Hewitt (Fabricated the Cyprus audio tapes)
* Thomas Kretschmann — Max (Financier and possible boss of Kingsley; hired Mandy)
* Peter Outerbridge — Ronnie Stark (Part of Kingsley's group that tortures Jack; #1)
* Brian Goodman — Raymond O'Hara (Part of Kingsley's group that tortures Jack; #2)
* Eugene Robert Glazer — Alexander Trepkos (Intermediary between Max and Kingsley)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_characters_in_24#Miscellaneous

He's apparently only been seen in Season 2, 2 eps.
http://imdb.com/name/nm0470981/

[teentitan]

Yeah if Max is the guy that was on the boat then yeah him.
One thing we have been overlooking is the Patriots. Last year they helped buddy with the nuc. This year they brokered a deal with the Russians for the nerve gas and Walt was a Patriot and now we know Logan is as well.
Everytime a Patriot talks about their plans it's always about destroying someone's oil so they can secure oil for America. So if Max is an oil guy I'd almost bet he's financing a lot of this.

[blackdog]

This is all I could find. This is the guy, right? "Max".



He's apparently only been seen in Season 2, 2 eps.
http://imdb.com/name/nm0470981/

Thanks for posting this...now I really have to go back and watch the earlier seasons.

Everytime a Patriot talks about their plans it's always about destroying someone's oil...

I'm still not convinced the whole thing is just about oil (although it's a big part of the story). Much of the Patriot conspiracy seems to be devoted to controlling and/or subverting the US government. These guys seem to operate with very long-term goals in mind. It's taken them years to kill Palmer & virtually destroy CTU. We may not find out all the answers this year.

[goldenboy]

Sutherland pacts for 3 three more years of "24"
LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - "24" star Kiefer Sutherland has inked a multifaceted deal with 20th Century Fox Television.

The rich pact, which is set to begin in June, calls for the actor to continue on the hit Fox drama for three more years and includes a two-year development deal for Sutherland's soon-to-be-launched production banner.

Details on the deal were sketchy, but sources pegged the acting portion alone at more than $40 million for the three seasons, which could make Sutherland the highest-paid actor in drama series.

While the deal with Sutherland locks him in for three additional years beyond the current fifth season of "24," the 20th TV/Imagine TV-produced show so far has been picked up for one additional season.

Under the pact, Sutherland also will be elevated from a co-executive producer to executive producer on "24" next season alongside Joel Surnow, Robert Cochran, Howard Gordon and Evan Katz.

The development portion of the deal is said to include overhead and a development fund for Sutherland's company. Sutherland will hire a development executive and will begin to develop and executive produce projects for television as well the Internet and wireless devices.

Sutherland called his past five years on the show "one of the most creative and rewarding experiences in my career."

In its fifth season, "24" is enjoying some of its best ratings and critical notices. The show, which introduced the now-hot serialized thriller genre

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=industryNews&storyID=2006-04-10T053406Z_01_N10310042_RTRIDST_0_INDUSTRY-SUTHERLAND-DC.XML

[Bored of the Dead]

Honestly it was mentioned in a UK Mag by David Fury that Sutherland maybe backing out of the series soon, but honestly i am SO please he is staying for upto three more years....its only right that its Jack Bauer....

On the rest, if Logan is a Patriot then i don't understand his behaviour for most of the season.....

[teentitan]

On the rest, if Logan is a Patriot then i don't understand his behaviour for most of the season.....

I have to say this...go to the dictionary and look up the word "deception". Now that you have a grip of the definition do you understand Logan's behaviour now? LMF'NAO
I love the "irony" of this one. Thanks for the laugh CLM!

[teentitan]

Ok now that I have had a good laugh at BotD's expense...
After the way this season is going can you really believe that Hollywood Reporter article GB?
I mean why would they release an article now when for the first time in 5 years I actually think Jack Bauer just might not see the end of the day?
I'm taking that article with a grain of salt cause it could be a swerve.

[goldenboy]

Well that's an interesting thought. Disinformation. I've never really noticed how reliable the Hollywood Reporter is, in terms of weeding out rumors...

the story's propagating pretty fast...
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=ISO-8859-1&ncl=http://people.aol.com/people/articles/0,19736,1181709,00.html


And get a load of this!
Playing The Spoiler, Kiefer Sutherland Says '24' Movie Is A Go

Actor says popular TV action series has film script in development.

BEVERLY HILLS, California — Over the course of five very long, nonconsecutive work days, Agent Jack Bauer has been caught up in vast conspiracies, massive terrorism plots and presidential scandals larger than anything the United States has ever seen. Now Kiefer Sutherland says his "24" character is finally going big time — and that some of his fan-favorite friends might rise from the dead for the occasion.

"The script is actually in development right now," Sutherland said excitedly Saturday, acknowledging plans for a movie version of his top-rated TV show. "It's something that we would shoot for doing next summer, during the next break."

Before fans raise the alert level to red, however, the 39-year-old star wants to assure them that Bauer's adventures will continue on screens both big and small. "I actually believe that they can co-exist," Sutherland said of the two projects. "The series can go and the films can go — or film — can go."

Leaving open the possibility of several big-screen Bauer missions, the veteran star then explained that the first "24" flick will not be 24 hours long but will instead offer a Reader's Digest-like summary of a whole new day from hell. "The '24' movie would be a two-hour representation of a 24-hour day," revealed the actor, who also stars in the similarly themed drama "The Sentinel" later this month. "That would be the first time that we would not do something in real time, but the characters would obviously all be derivative of the show."
http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1528309/04102006/story.jhtml

[teentitan]

http://jam.canoe.ca/Television/2006/04/09/1527518.html

This is a story about Chloe and she says some pretty interesting stuff.
I find it odd that there is a blitz of stories about 24. Are the stories true or are we turning into conspirocy theorists?lol

[Bored of the Dead]

I have to say this...go to the dictionary and look up the word "deception". Now that you have a grip of the definition do you understand Logan's behaviour now? LMF'NAO
I love the "irony" of this one. Thanks for the laugh CLM!

You watch the Episode where Cummings reveals himself to Logan.........Laugh as much as you want, 'Deception' does not sit right with the way he has handled situations.
To me, this stinks of, 'damn we have the terrorists, what the hell can we do to keep up the suspense and intrigue'

David Fury even said in the same interview that he suggest Sutherland may bow out, that they are not really writing with a clear thought in their head, they are writing it episode by episode...which definitly suggest to me that the big reveals are not as throughly planned as people like to believe.

You say that it seems like Jack maybe on his way out, then bam we are told that Jack is not only staying, but is contracted to star for 3 years if the show continues......one source is possible lie, but i don't see why the TV company would double bluff people like this, not when the show is at its peak in all areas, the draw to the show IS Keifer and he has said himself that he would love to continue on the show when he did the TV interview circuit just 6 months ago......

[teentitan]

All good and valid points BotD but if there is one thing from this season of 24 that has stood out from the previous seasons is this...the writers do not want the fans to think they know what is going to happen. And I am loving it because any speculations that I have made have been thrown right back into my face with a big "nananana!" from the writers.
This is 24's best season yet in ratings, 14 million a show. Could all the sudden articles be a swerve? Does Keifer really want to do another 3 years of break neck filming. He has said that he feels like he is shooting 12 movies back to back in one season.
Now as for tonight's epi don't go messing with satellites in Choe's house bitches!!! Man has her character ever evolved.
And the conversation between Logan and Henderson sure sounded like the typical Patriot patter over the years. Security of the nation yadyada. Only thing that got me is the conversation implied there is another player. Logan was talking about all the planing etc then he threw the "you decided to kill Palmer. So it is your problem."
Thoughts everyone?

[goldenboy]

I will say that this ep felt like less of a cheat, a stunt with Logan. Now it almost feels like he was complicit in the scheme, but he may not have even thought of coming on board until fairly recently. Basically, he's a part of the Chechin entrapment job, the pretext for invasion. He's concerned about his personal legacy as much as "security" and somehow was convinced it could actually work.

That feels like being true to the character as we've come to know him. Like the Patriots appealed to both his vanity and some sense of idealism...but I can't tell...maybe he's been a psycho-patriot from the get-go.

[teentitan]

So I wonder if there is danger pay involved with being romantically linked to Jack Bauer?
About Aaron not meeting the 1st lady...did he get early retirement? Has he decided to sit in the bushes to find out who the baddies are? If he did get eliminated that means there's another player in Logan's compound we don't know about.
And it is now offical, Chloe is the Jack Bauer of the tech head world! I just love how her character has developed and is just kickn' ass and taking names.

[goldenboy]

That Shari woman was dumbstruck after Chloe threatened her, heh.

So that was supposed to be Aaron's cel lying on the ground I guess. Looked like it was blinking "Logan" in bright red...Martha's gonna know what's what, whether Aaron's dead or alive, seems like.

I hope Audrey can escape "24" relatively intact and just convalesce—not die.

[N4H]

Yeah, it's almost the Jack and Chloe show now isn't it? Spin-off anyone?

Oh no. Not Aaron? I was just getting used to Edgar.

I totally saw the Audrey thing coming...except I didn't. When Daddy Heller rejected Jack's plan, I immediately thought, they'll kill Audrey, so Heller can see the error of his ways, and come on board with Jack. They're so tricky though, even when you think you've got it, they spin it to some place different.

Man, this season is intense. It really gets you thinking.

Does it seem to anyone else like Homeland security is becoming this generation of spy-fi's baddies, the way the CIA was for the last one?

I wonder why that is. Like why do we all of a sudden dislike, and distrust Homeland Security?

This "it's all about the oil" conspiracy thing also seems to be becoming popular with the new hollywood liberal screen-writer mindset. Prison Break seems to be doing it too.

I wonder if they're on to something.

Love the way it's not about a nefarious scheme this season, more about a huge screw-up. That so feels like it could really happen, and it shows you how fragile our system is. How easy it would be for everything to just go totalitarian over-night.

[goldenboy]

Does it seem to anyone else like Homeland security is becoming this generation of spy-fi's baddies, the way the CIA was for the last one?

I wonder why that is. Like why do we all of a sudden dislike, and distrust Homeland Security?

This "it's all about the oil" conspiracy thing also seems to be becoming popular with the new hollywood liberal screen-writer mindset. Prison Break seems to be doing it too.

I wonder if they're on to something.

Love the way it's not about a nefarious scheme this season, more about a huge screw-up. That so feels like it could really happen, and it shows you how fragile our system is. How easy it would be for everything to just go totalitarian over-night.

I think there's the perception out there that Homeland Security is an example of instant gigantic bloated bureaucracy. But it seems like it's been effective—as in, nothing's happened on US soil since '01. The freedom vs security debate goes on...

This blog post is from over a year ago, but I thought it was funny.

“24”: Liberal or Conservative?

I raised this question a few weeks ago, and the responses have been about 50/50. Consider these generic versions of the primary arguments, and should be taken as much as parodies of actual political dialogue than dialogue itself (spoilers are likely, if you’ve never seen ‘24’ up until now):

Mr. L: “24” is liberal because David Palmer, the presidential candidate in season 1 and president in seasons 2 and 3, is clearly established as a Democrat, and is depicted almost entirely as an admiral, brave leader. In Season 2, he expresses willingness to invade “three middle eastern countries,” but is cautious, seeking to prove first that the unnamed countries were in fact responsible for that day’s nuclear attack. Such a turn of events would likely make Palmer the New Republic’s favorite president of all time.

Mr. C: However, since we learn very little of Palmer’s views on domestic politics, we can’t establish that he’s actually a liberal, and furthermore, Palmer falls victim in Season 2 to a coup attempt led by his vice president and several cabinet members, most or all of whom were presumably Democrats as well. And finally, the president in Season 4, Keeler, is a Republican, and both Keeler and his Secretary of Defense, Heller, are portrayed just as bravely and heroically as Palmer. Therefore, “24” is conservative.

Mr. L: But you forgot: that plot during Season 2, in which evidence falsified by sinister forces within the government nearly caused the United States to start a war in the Middle East, happened to take place at the exact same time that the real United States was starting a war in the Middle East, also largely based on evidence that turned out to be wrong. Furthermore, in a Village Voice wet dream, the manipulation was carried out by a consortium of oil interests. Therefore, both in being so prescient about the misuse of government power and distrust of Big Oil, and in opposing the idea of pre-emptive war, “24” is liberal.

Mr. C: So what? That decision followed one in which a nuclear attack took place on U.S. soil. And indeed, all four seasons of the show have featured terrorists seeking to do harm to the United States and CTU fighting back against them- therefore proving “24” conservative both in acknowledging that we are at war with terrorism, and in unambiguously endorsing the notion of fighting back against the terrorists. This is also demonstrated in that in dealing with terror suspects, torture is not the last resort, but rather the first.

Mr. L: Speaking of nuclear attacks… the Season 4 storyline, involving a plot by terrorists to cause meltdowns at several nuclear reactors, highlights two popular liberal causes: the environmental dangers of nuclear power, and the Bush Administration’s lack of security at nuclear power plants. Therefore, “24” is liberal.

Mr. C: But let’s look beyond the show: “24” airs on Fox, which as we all know is owned by the arch-conservative media baron Rupert Murdoch. Furthermore, all of the news footage broadcast within CTU is Fox News Channel, while on the February 28 episode, the terrorists were seen watching CNN. And the show’s creator and executive producer, Joel Surnow, described himself in a recent Entertainment Weekly article as a “right-wing nutjob.”

Mr. L: True, but there’s nothing conservative about the main character, Jack Bauer- yes, he’s willing to kill and torture terrorists, but he’s also practically the right-hand man of a Democratic president (Palmer) who he can get on the phone whenever he wants, and don’t forget that he was also cautious about going to war in the “three Middle Eastern countries.”

Mr. C: That’s nothing: throughout its history, “24” has exhibited a conservative-oriented tendency to spit in the face of political correctness- despite the cries of Muslim activists, it has used Islamic terrorists in two of its four seasons, and has never felt the need to depict racial minorities necessarily as heroic characters. Case in point- the show’s most notorious villain is Sherry Palmer, a black woman.

Mr. L: True, but even in doing so the show –in classic liberal fashion- has taken pains to balance out the Muslim villains with Muslim good guys, such as Resa and later the Muslim CTU agent in Season 2, and Berooz in Season 4. And that’s to say nothing of that PSA Sutherland did. There has been more than one African-American hero (from David Palmer on down), and besides, Sherry may be the show’s biggest villain, but by far its most hated character- Kim Bauer- is a white woman.

Mr. C: I agree. Kim sucks.

Mr. L: Indeed. A character so bad she transcends politics.

http://www.stevesilver.net/mt/archives/005702.html

[N4H]

Thanks GB. I enjoyed reading that. Loved the last bit.

[teentitan]

About the Homeland Security (HS) thing...originally the concept of the HS was to co-ordinate all levels of law agencies, cops, sheriffs, DEA, CIA, FBI, border patrol etc. This is a great idea...on paper. The one problem is there is a lot of branches for HS to co-ordinate and the strings of HS can be controled by the President because he can control any law agency that has a HS agent on the scene.
So HS this season on 24 is being portrayed as puppets doing their masters bidding. The #2 guy is so far up the Presidents butt that all we can see is his shoes. The head of HS though on the other hand is showing that she does not understand what is going on and is "speculating" when Logan gives her an order. She was eager to perform in the field when CTU was gassed but now that she is seeing that priorities on who to bring into custody are shifting I wouldn't be surprised if she does something against Logan, which I think by the preview for next weeks epi is going to be soon.

[goldenboy]

The head of HS though on the other hand is showing that she does not understand what is going on and is "speculating" when Logan gives her an order. She was eager to perform in the field when CTU was gassed but now that she is seeing that priorities on who to bring into custody are shifting I wouldn't be surprised if she does something against Logan, which I think by the preview for next weeks epi is going to be soon.
That would be interesting. If there's a prevailing 24 theme (besides oil)...it seems to be "question authority". Or "trust no one", or..."the truth is out there"? lol. Nah, seems to be something like true patriotism, the greater good, transcends blind adherence to politics, agencies, protocols. Both the key good guys and some key bad guys this season seem to operate with that idea in mind...

[teentitan]

That would be interesting. If there's a prevailing 24 theme (besides oil)...it seems to be "question authority". Or "trust no one", or..."the truth is out there"? lol. Nah, seems to be something like true patriotism, the greater good, transcends blind adherence to politics, agencies, protocols. Both the key good guys and some key bad guys this season seem to operate with that idea in mind...

But could you not entertain the idea that maybe she will not do as told? There is a clause in orders that you can disobey a direct order if you perceive that order to be dangerous and foolish in nature which would result in injury or death of you or any of your subordinates.
Besides wouldn't it be cool to watch Logan flip out if she does disobey?

[Bored of the Dead]

Slightly off topic but not...

WOW...LONDON GETS TERRORIZED....but not for real

A movie version of hit US TV series 24 is to be filmed in London, according to its star Kiefer Sutherland.

The actor will tell Jonathan Ross of the plans during an appearance on his BBC chat show, Friday Night with Jonathan Ross.

Sutherland, who plays Jack Bauer in the TV series, tells Ross: "We're working on that, we'll shoot the film here.

"We're really excited about it. In the US 24 was slow to catch on but in the UK it was big so Fox stuck with it, so thank you Britain."



Link Source (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/05052006/344/plans-big-screen-24-revealed.html)

[goldenboy]

Well that's good. A change of scenery will be nice. LA can be a dangerous place, but...sheesh.